* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' @ 2013-07-20 0:02 Drew Adams 2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2013-07-20 0:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 14914 The menu item *toggles* the state. It should not be called `Hide Details'. Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the current state. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2013-07-14 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 113423 lekktu@gmail.com-20130715004922-i67tg2ois14h3fpm Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=/c/Devel/emacs/binary --enable-checking=yes,glyphs CFLAGS='-O0 -g3' CPPFLAGS='-Ic:/Devel/emacs/include' LDFLAGS='-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib'' ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' 2013-07-20 0:02 bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Drew Adams @ 2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu 2013-07-20 4:12 ` Drew Adams 2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K 0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Leo Liu @ 2013-07-20 2:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 14914 On 2013-07-20 08:02 +0800, Drew Adams wrote: > Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change > dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the > current state. Is 'Toggle Details' acceptable? Leo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' 2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu @ 2013-07-20 4:12 ` Drew Adams 2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K 1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2013-07-20 4:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Leo Liu; +Cc: 14914 > > Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change > > dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the > > current state. > > Is 'Toggle Details' acceptable? How do you toggle a detail? What does it mean? `Toggle Hiding Details' (or `Toggle Showing Details') might be OK. `Show/Hide Details' reflects the `Show/Hide' submenu of `Options'. `Hide/UnHide Details' reflects item `Hide/UnHide Subdir' of the `Subdir' menu in Dired (but UnHide is bad as written, for two reasons). I prefer `Show/Hide Details' or `Hide/Show Details' (or `Show or Hide Details' etc.), but the main point is that this item either shows hidden details or hides the details if shown. It does not just hide the details. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' 2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu 2013-07-20 4:12 ` Drew Adams @ 2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-20 15:46 ` Drew Adams 1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-20 4:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Leo Liu; +Cc: 14914 Leo Liu <sdl.web@gmail.com> writes: > On 2013-07-20 08:02 +0800, Drew Adams wrote: >> Either it should be called `Hide/Show Details' or the name should change >> dynamically between `Hide Details' and `Show Details', depending on the >> current state. > > Is 'Toggle Details' acceptable? [✓] Show details > Leo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' 2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K @ 2013-07-20 15:46 ` Drew Adams 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2013-07-20 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jambunathan K, Leo Liu; +Cc: 14914 > [✓] Show details I almost suggested that too (but with title case: `Show Details'). I probably should have mentioned it. I did not because of the considerations below, but I'm glad you have brought it up now. I have no objection to that, but in that case we should perhaps do likewise for other toggles in Dired, such as `Toggle Image Thumbnails in This Buffer' (which also happens to be a bad name, IMO). Another consideration is that the use of a check box for a toggle often corresponds to an actual user option, i.e., a variable that one can customize. And in fact, I believe, that was the original sense of menu `Options', hence the name. There are notable exceptions, such as `Tool-bar' on `Options' > `Show/Hide', which do not correspond to options (and which perhaps should not be on menu `Options'?). Another consideration is perhaps that, so far, menu `Options', which is a main place where we use such check boxes, seems to be limited to global toggles, not buffer-local ones (didn't check them all though). Likewise menu `Printing', which is another place where we use the check boxes heavily. However, Dired menu `Immediate' does have the buffer-specific `Toggle Image Thumbnails in This Buffer'. I don't know what the general policy/guideline is, if there is one, wrt the use of check boxes. Should they be limited to user options? Should they be limited to behavior that is global and not buffer-specific? Dunno. Should we perhaps have a visual convention that makes clear whether a particular toggle (a) is global or local and (b) corresponds to an option or not? Without that, users need to use `C-h k' or mouseover :help to get more info about an item, and unfortunately such info does not always answer the question because it was written in a context where the answer was clear enough without being explicit. In sum, I would be OK with a `Show Details' check box on the Dired `Immediate' menu, provided those who set the guidelines ;-) think it fits wrt the above considerations (i.e., that it is OK that it is for a minor mode, with no associated user option, and that it is OK that it is buffer-local). I agree that having a check box makes clear that the item is a toggle. That is a decided advantage, making for quicker locating and identifying. My only hesitation is the lack of clarity for users wrt whether the toggle is for a customizable variable and whether it is buffer-local or global. Thanks again for bringing up the check-box question in this context. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2013-07-20 15:46 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2013-07-20 0:02 bug#14914: 24.3.50; Menu item for `dired-hide-details-mode' should be `Hide/Show Details' Drew Adams 2013-07-20 2:35 ` Leo Liu 2013-07-20 4:12 ` Drew Adams 2013-07-20 4:17 ` Jambunathan K 2013-07-20 15:46 ` Drew Adams
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