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From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "'Stuart Hacking'" <stuhacking@gmail.com>
Cc: "'Óscar Fuentes'" <ofv@wanadoo.es>,
	"'Lennart Borgman'" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: Bikeshedding go! Why is <M-f4> unbound?
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 07:01:18 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <57BF13882D6E494286547F293FE9D03B@us.oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=EtrAzdEQ=fMFz3suGtHiKntj41kYdYZh0SfRN@mail.gmail.com>

> > There is no reason for Emacs to bind Alt-F4 (or M-f4) by default.
> > It should be kept for anyone to bind to anything.  (Just 
> > one more opinion.)
> 
> On the other hand, it wouldn't be a big deal for Emacs to have a
> default binding. Anyone who cares enough will be able to rebind it.
> 
> There's always discussion about making Emacs a more well behaved
> application on Windows and this seems like a low-hanging fruit?

I respectfully disagree.

1. There's _no special reason_ to give _this_ key a default binding.

2. While it is true that a default binding can be overridden, that's not a good
enough argument for making a _particular_ default binding.

3. Default bindings tend to become sacrosanct in the eyes of many over time.  A
library (or even a user) that binds one can be thought by some to be going
against the grain (convention).

4. It's not because some key is unbound that we should give it a default
binding.  If the argument that a default binding can always be overridden were
sufficient for creating default bindings, then we would bind _every_ key by
default.  Even a random default binding would be bound to please someone, and
"Anyone who cares enough will be able to rebind it."

5. Slippery slope.  Windows uses key XYZ for blah, so we bind it.  Then someone
says "Hey, we respect the Windows binding by default for XYZ, why not also for
UVW and RST and ...?

"It wouldn't be a big deal for Emacs to have a default binding" - epitaph on a
tombstone in Boot Hill, Tombstone, Arizona.




  reply	other threads:[~2011-01-12 15:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-01-05 14:48 Bikeshedding go! Why is <M-f4> unbound? Deniz Dogan
2011-01-05 15:29 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-05 17:11   ` Deniz Dogan
2011-01-05 17:30     ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-01-05 17:36       ` Deniz Dogan
2011-01-05 18:15         ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-09 22:00           ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-10  1:01             ` Drew Adams
2011-01-10  1:46               ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-10  3:01                 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-10  3:08                   ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-12 13:53               ` Stuart Hacking
2011-01-12 15:01                 ` Drew Adams [this message]
2011-01-12 15:54                   ` Deniz Dogan
2011-01-12 17:17                     ` Drew Adams
2011-01-12 20:29                       ` Chad Brown
2011-01-12 20:32                     ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-12 20:42                       ` Deniz Dogan
2011-01-13  2:42                         ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-13  3:13                           ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13  3:59                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-13  4:15                             ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13 13:13                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-13 16:57                             ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-13 18:05                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-13 21:15                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-13 22:00                                   ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14  0:12                                     ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-14  0:21                                       ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14  5:02                                         ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-14  8:28                                           ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13 22:18                               ` Drew Adams
2011-01-13 22:30                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13 22:47                                   ` Drew Adams
2011-01-13 23:04                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-13 23:14                                     ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14  9:25                                     ` Giorgos Keramidas
2011-01-14  9:43                                       ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-13 22:53                                 ` Stuart Hacking
2011-01-13 23:10                                   ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14  0:13                                 ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-14  1:35                                   ` Drew Adams
2011-01-14  5:08                                     ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-14 10:49                             ` PJ Weisberg
2011-01-14 15:21                               ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14 15:48                               ` Stefan Monnier
2011-01-15  0:07                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-15 11:41                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-16 21:49                                   ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                                     ` <227F94B0AC1649C1A41082A24!9921783@us.oracle!! !  .com>
     [not found]                                     ` <227F94B0AC1649C1A41082A24! 9921783@us.oracle! .com>
     [not found]                                     ` <227F94B0AC1649C1A41082A24!9921783@us.oracle!! .com>
2011-01-16 23:53                                     ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17  1:40                                       ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17  1:52                                         ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17  8:32                                         ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 18:22                                           ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 18:36                                             ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 19:02                                               ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 19:27                                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18  3:20                                                 ` Bikeshedding "user choice" Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-18  5:29                                                   ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18  6:11                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-18 17:45                                                       ` Drew Adams
2011-01-19  4:59                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-19 19:34                                                           ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18  8:06                                                 ` Bikeshedding go! Why is <M-f4> unbound? jasonr
2011-01-17 19:27                                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-17 20:24                                               ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17  2:27                                     ` Jason Rumney
2011-01-17 18:21                                       ` Drew Adams
2011-01-16 21:49                                 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-14 17:58                               ` Drew Adams
2011-01-14 20:27                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-14 22:24                                   ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                                     ` <D727BC7268A24AF7B9544FD4E0B74E11@us! .oracle.com>
2011-01-14 22:43                                     ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-16 21:49                                       ` Drew Adams
2011-01-16 23:49                                         ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17  0:33                                           ` Philipp Haselwarter
2011-01-17  1:41                                             ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17  1:45                                           ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17  8:29                                             ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17  8:47                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-17  9:23                                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 18:22                                                 ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 18:22                                               ` Drew Adams
2011-01-15  2:38                                 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-01-16 21:49                                   ` Drew Adams
2011-01-10 10:15             ` Dimitri Fontaine
2011-01-05 15:31 ` Christopher Allan Webber
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2011-01-14  1:20 grischka
2011-01-17 12:06 grischka
2011-01-17 12:23 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 14:37 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-17 16:56   ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18  3:03 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-18  9:11   ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 12:10   ` grischka
2011-01-17 20:31 Drew Adams
2011-01-17 20:53 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 21:56   ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 22:23     ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-17 23:17       ` Drew Adams
2011-01-17 23:58         ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18  0:36           ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18  0:47             ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18  1:20               ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18  1:38                 ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18  3:14                   ` Drew Adams
2011-01-18  4:06                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2011-01-18  9:36 grischka
2011-01-18 12:58 ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-18 13:15   ` grischka
2011-01-18 13:27     ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-18 17:20       ` Drew Adams
2011-01-19 10:08         ` Stuart Hacking
2011-01-19 19:37           ` Drew Adams
2011-01-20  1:00             ` PJ Weisberg
2011-01-20 17:12               ` Drew Adams
2011-01-20 20:10                 ` PJ Weisberg
2011-01-18 13:33     ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 13:51       ` Óscar Fuentes
2011-01-18 17:40         ` Lennart Borgman
2011-01-18 17:52           ` Óscar Fuentes

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