FR: multiple or repeating active timestamps in agenda

FR: multiple or repeating active timestamps in agenda

[Austin Frank]

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Hello!

I'm getting to the point of actually using org for organization (as
opposed to using it for note taking and publishing and procrastination).
Currently, when a repeated task is marked as done, it shows up again in
the agenda on the date of the next occurrence of the task as long as the
task is scheduled or has a deadline.  I'd like to request two additions
to this behavior.

First, would it be possible to add this same feature for active
timestamps that don't occur in a SCHEDULED or DEADLINE line?  I follow
the advice in the manual and don't use SCHEDULED for meetings, but I do
have some recurring meetings.  So, for the following entry:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
* Standing Appointments
** TODO Meeting with Mike
   <2008-01-23 Wed 10:00-11:30 +1w>
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I'd like to be able to mark it as done every week, without needing it to
be SCHEDULED or have a DEADLINE.  Currently, the first time I mark it as
done, all past and future repetitions are also marked as done.

Second, for some events with only a few repetitions I create multiple
active timestamps within one entry instead of using a repeating
timestamp.  So, for example, I have an entry like:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
* Standing Appointments
** TODO Swing III
   <2008-01-21 Mon 19:30-21:30>
   <2008-01-28 Mon 19:30-21:30>
   <2008-02-04 Mon 19:30-21:30>
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Given that we can't combine repetition intervals with date ranges (or
can we?), would it be possible to add a new behavior to deal with this
case?  When a TODO entry contains multiple time stamps, all of them
would show up in the agenda as TODO items.  Marking the item as done
would use the same logic used for dealing with repeaters, and would
continue to include the next active timestamp in the agenda as a TODO.

In the past I have dealt with this second case by adding more structure
to the task:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
* Standing Appointments
** Swing III
*** TODO Week 1
    <2008-01-21 Mon 19:30-21:30>
*** TODO Week 2
    <2008-01-28 Mon 19:30-21:30>
*** TODO Week 3
    <2008-02-04 Mon 19:30-21:30>
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

This gets the job done, but seems unnecessarily cluttered and redundant
to me.

Thanks for considering it,
/au

-- 
Austin Frank
http://aufrank.net
GPG Public Key (D7398C2F): http://aufrank.net/personal.asc

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Re: FR: multiple or repeating active timestamps in agenda

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi Austin,

On Jan 21, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Austin Frank wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I'm getting to the point of actually using org for organization (as
> opposed to using it for note taking and publishing and  
> procrastination).
> Currently, when a repeated task is marked as done, it shows up again  
> in
> the agenda on the date of the next occurrence of the task as long as  
> the
> task is scheduled or has a deadline.  I'd like to request two  
> additions
> to this behavior.
>
> First, would it be possible to add this same feature for active
> timestamps that don't occur in a SCHEDULED or DEADLINE line?  I follow
> the advice in the manual and don't use SCHEDULED for meetings, but I  
> do
> have some recurring meetings.  So, for the following entry:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> * Standing Appointments
> ** TODO Meeting with Mike
>   <2008-01-23 Wed 10:00-11:30 +1w>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> I'd like to be able to mark it as done every week, without needing  
> it to
> be SCHEDULED or have a DEADLINE.  Currently, the first time I mark  
> it as
> done, all past and future repetitions are also marked as done.

What is the purpose of marking it done?  It is not going to be on
your agenda after that day, if you have notes for the meeting you
can just add them.  So I don't really see the use of this.

> Second, for some events with only a few repetitions I create multiple
> active timestamps within one entry instead of using a repeating
> timestamp.  So, for example, I have an entry like:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> * Standing Appointments
> ** TODO Swing III
>   <2008-01-21 Mon 19:30-21:30>
>   <2008-01-28 Mon 19:30-21:30>
>   <2008-02-04 Mon 19:30-21:30>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Given that we can't combine repetition intervals with date ranges (or
> can we?),

No, we cannot.

> would it be possible to add a new behavior to deal with this
> case?  When a TODO entry contains multiple time stamps, all of them
> would show up in the agenda as TODO items.  Marking the item as done
> would use the same logic used for dealing with repeaters, and would
> continue to include the next active timestamp in the agenda as a TODO.
>
> In the past I have dealt with this second case by adding more  
> structure
> to the task:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> * Standing Appointments
> ** Swing III
> *** TODO Week 1
>    <2008-01-21 Mon 19:30-21:30>
> *** TODO Week 2
>    <2008-01-28 Mon 19:30-21:30>
> *** TODO Week 3
>    <2008-02-04 Mon 19:30-21:30>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>

I'd say this is a pretty good way of dealing with a limited amount of  
meetings.

Yes, I am lazy to no implement this, but believe me, time stamp handling
is complex already, in part because I have been adding the new features
one at a time.  Had I know from the start what kind of features would be
goot, time ranges with repeater intervals would probably be in.  Now,  
it is
hard to do.  I'll put it into my tickler file, but no promises....

- Carsten

Re: FR: multiple or repeating active timestamps in agenda

[Austin Frank]

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On Tue, Jan 22 2008, Carsten Dominik wrote:

> Hi Austin,
>>
>> I'd like to be able to mark it as done every week, without needing it
>> to be SCHEDULED or have a DEADLINE.  Currently, the first time I mark
>> it as done, all past and future repetitions are also marked as done.
>
> What is the purpose of marking it done?  It is not going to be on your
> agenda after that day, if you have notes for the meeting you can just
> add them.  So I don't really see the use of this.

The point of marking it done is mostly to have a record of having
completed it.  I'm trying to use org to generate reports of what I get
done each week, and attending recurring meetings and courses is a large
portion of the stuff I have to do.  I'd like a way to include these
recurring events in the list of things I've accomplished.

I could create a new task for each instance of the event, but a) I worry
I would forget, and b) that gets to be a hassle when it's something that
happens two or three times a week over several months.

>> Given that we can't combine repetition intervals with date ranges (or
>> can we?),
>
> No, we cannot.

Understandable, for exactly the reasons you mention below.

>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> * Standing Appointments
>> ** Swing III
>> *** TODO Week 1
>>    <2008-01-21 Mon 19:30-21:30>
>> *** TODO Week 2
>>    <2008-01-28 Mon 19:30-21:30>
>> *** TODO Week 3
>>    <2008-02-04 Mon 19:30-21:30>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>
>
> I'd say this is a pretty good way of dealing with a limited amount of
> meetings.

I will probably use this structure to deal with this case.  I would
still appreciate any suggestions from the list on how to include
recurring events as TODO items without marking them as SCHEDULED or
DEADLINE.  Has anyone else dealt with this situation?

> Yes, I am lazy to no implement this, but believe me, time stamp
> handling is complex already, in part because I have been adding the
> new features one at a time.  Had I know from the start what kind of
> features would be goot, time ranges with repeater intervals would
> probably be in.  Now, it is hard to do.  I'll put it into my tickler
> file, but no promises....

Org is obviously already incredibly useful.  I'm certainly not
complaining, just looking for the best way to fit org to my thinking and
vice versa.  Thanks for considering the request, and for all of the
features that already are in org.

/au

-- 
Austin Frank
http://aufrank.net
GPG Public Key (D7398C2F): http://aufrank.net/personal.asc

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Re: FR: multiple or repeating active timestamps in agenda

[Detlef Steuer]

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:03:28 -0500
Austin Frank <austin.frank@gmail.com> wrote:

> I will probably use this structure to deal with this case.  I would
> still appreciate any suggestions from the list on how to include
> recurring events as TODO items without marking them as SCHEDULED or
> DEADLINE.  Has anyone else dealt with this situation?

That's exactly the cause for me to combine the powers of 
org and remind. http://www.roaringpenguin.com/products/remind

I have a setup for recurring tasks in remind, a small script converting 
the output of remind to org (recently posted here) and a cron job doing
a daily update.

I'm quite happy with that.
		
Detlef

-- 
Wisely, and slow. They stumble that run fast. - Shakespeare


-- 
Wisely, and slow. They stumble that run fast. - Shakespeare

Re: Re: FR: multiple or repeating active timestamps in agenda

[Carsten Dominik]

On Jan 22, 2008, at 4:03 PM, Austin Frank wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 22 2008, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>
>> Hi Austin,
>>>
>>> I'd like to be able to mark it as done every week, without needing  
>>> it
>>> to be SCHEDULED or have a DEADLINE.  Currently, the first time I  
>>> mark
>>> it as done, all past and future repetitions are also marked as done.
>>
>> What is the purpose of marking it done?  It is not going to be on  
>> your
>> agenda after that day, if you have notes for the meeting you can just
>> add them.  So I don't really see the use of this.
>
> The point of marking it done is mostly to have a record of having
> completed it.  I'm trying to use org to generate reports of what I get
> done each week, and attending recurring meetings and courses is a  
> large
> portion of the stuff I have to do.  I'd like a way to include these
> recurring events in the list of things I've accomplished.
>
> I could create a new task for each instance of the event, but a) I  
> worry
> I would forget, and b) that gets to be a hassle when it's something  
> that
> happens two or three times a week over several months.
>
>>> Given that we can't combine repetition intervals with date ranges  
>>> (or
>>> can we?),
>>
>> No, we cannot.
>
> Understandable, for exactly the reasons you mention below.

I do now think that I can allow repeater appointments to interact
with the TODO state as you proposed.  So lets try this in 5.20.

Still no end date for repeating appointments, sorry.

- Carsten