From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Heime via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#65348: INITIAL-INPUT in completing-read repeats same entry twice consecutively Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 05:42:43 +0000 Message-ID: <571_jSaUteaY0xDvqYdtM-FS0QLvAyOLY94AUDK81h4Fdn0jF869iyYXLHgsEmj1cEMNt6QHJnfCKY-__59S3R8z4SG03sXu9rO6mQa8nwg=@protonmail.com> References: <7D2p2XmGzWwhYjrI_PaUsn8r_NaQf-B0eAf7AmeRIhBEl84z79j_jKky-Lqlt6nc52SQ7T5yrL9OdqUzou1Mh3zQzgJx-SV6kIvc9Km8bDg=@protonmail.com> <83a5un35h6.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Heime Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31274"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 65348@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 20 07:43:14 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbDW-0007yp-5R for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 07:43:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbDO-0002bT-07; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:43:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbDJ-0002bE-CN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:43:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbDJ-0005OK-4A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:43:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbDK-0007dg-Gc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:43:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Heime Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2023 05:43:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65348 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 65348-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65348.169251017629353 (code B ref 65348); Sun, 20 Aug 2023 05:43:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 65348) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2023 05:42:56 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52700 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbDD-0007dM-RS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:42:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-40130.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.130]:23475) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qXbDC-0007d9-AS for 65348@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2023 01:42:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1692510166; x=1692769366; bh=X9bRxoPoalyzaRQruGGOYTgG0EwW+J3CuQ2QtQTfh1s=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=wdLrI85CWrGy8VS33pSDiALlrZF8KNVToinYtqj0CFH9TtbOkJkcG0mn1MYobus4I GK7Y60wDye4Cw6CLsa9QwAS7xXRboc0IQ2sckZTHG858N/j73emCvHzIUZ5eXGLItD POoq0h4CzJOXrkrCOCz1PI2BWdINGwObDQYc04dEcfILxPP3b/es1fRIn3yvMAHaVA PakbcEiEyjf1GSq6mLw4tX3xuODca7hgyjo/lWqrIKCSOUSwLuQVEylRM3VV8wdLv1 Q3A40RExtoEAbDZgXp61kDDCMqYOVY/IJqZLTNTnZH6naQk1WBYQ/4jOoZVdFmL4G9 uk9VplZV5AxfA== In-Reply-To: <83o7j2yh47.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 57735886:user:proton X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:267940 Archived-At: ------- Original Message ------- On Sunday, August 20th, 2023 at 7:19 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote= : > > From: Drew Adams drew.adams@oracle.com > > CC: "65348@debbugs.gnu.org" 65348@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2023 16:20:07 +0000 > >=20 > > > You can try starting a discussion on emacs-devel if you want. But the > > > above-mentioned change was not done arbitrarily, and does have its > > > merit in many situations, > >=20 > > I don't see that it has merit in any situation. >=20 >=20 > The situations where it's useful are obvious. >=20 > > I haven't seen a single example cited where it > > has merit. Can you point to one? >=20 >=20 > What for? so you could argue endlessly that you disagree? We already > know that you don't like that change and think it should be reverted, > so what would be the purpose of another discussion about that? >=20 > > And I think you agreed that it's obvious that in > > some cases (such as the `C-h v' example cited in > > bug #64656) it's clearly not helpful but harmful. >=20 > In some, quite extreme, case, indeed, it is not useful. That doesn't > yet mean it is always useless. Using a list in collection for cycling using an 'initial-value' ('default-v= alue' if that what most people would like it to be, is not an extreme case. =20 =20 > Again, we've been through that, and I really have no reason to do it > again. Life is too short. Will 'INITIAL-VALUE' be deprecated and made obsolete. Then we would be usi= ng 'DEF' ? One thing that bothers me quite a bit is the idea of obsolescence, but in practice we keep things as they are for the sake of not breaking com= patibility with older versions. The result is a complicated call definitions that whi= le they exist, a concurrent rule is actually in effect suggesting others what = should be used and not used. =20 While providing multiple ways of accomplishing tasks can offer flexibility = and=20 accommodate various preferences and use cases, leaving conflicting or redun= dant features leads to confusion and complexity for developers working with the = codebase. Deprecation should mean removing them in newer versions with instructions t= o developers on migrating to the alternative. Can there be the option to place an item from the collection (call it 'INIT= IAL', 'DEF', 'WHATEVER') that appears as soon as `completing-read` is called ?