From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#30397: Random numbers in grep mode-line Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 07:59:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <571596f8-5f15-4b7e-b0b4-9842ea36aa7d@default> References: <<<87tvurtbek.fsf@mail.linkov.net>>> <<<702f1621-529b-47b0-a15d-898a2fd81f79@default>>> <<<83eflu4hjx.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<3e9d0fd8-b859-4eec-8f34-54185dd6c0f3@default>> <<83zi4i2n2o.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1518192377 28843 195.159.176.226 (9 Feb 2018 16:06:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:06:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 30397@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 09 17:06:13 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ekBBR-00066m-Sa for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Fri, 9 Feb 2018 15:59:15 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w19FxERa013507; Fri, 9 Feb 2018 15:59:14 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83zi4i2n2o.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4639.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8799 signatures=668665 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=953 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1802090203 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:143055 Archived-At: > > If you agree that better help about this would be > > in order, where would you suggest putting that help, > > if not on `C-h m'? >=20 > Our current practice is to describe that in the manual. That's OK by me. Somewhere is better than nowhere. The manual is better than just NEWS. > If we decide to add that to "C-h m", we should do that > for all the modes. That doesn't follow. We sometimes describe some keys in `C-h m' output. That doesn't mean we should describe all keys in the mode map. We should describe what needs to be described - in particular, (1) things that might be the least obvious, clear or easy to discover and (2) things that might be the most important to know. > We should also consider the discoverability: Definitely. That's why NEWS doesn't suffice. The best discoverability for something in the mode-line is mouseover tooltip info - right there. The second best is clicking that thing in the mode line - right there. For mode indications in the mode-line, I do think that `C-h m' would not be a bad place to describe them, when the info is needed (i.e., when they are not clear on their own and you cannot get more info about them from the mode-line itself - see previous). > "C-h m" is not where I would look for documentation > of a mode, only for its keybindings. Only its key bindings? Not I. To me, `C-h m' should give an overview of the mode: what it's for etc. If `C-h m' for some mode just lists a few key bindings then I'm disappointed and want more info. `C-h m' is sometimes (often? typically?) the doc string of the mode function. As such, like any command doc string, it should describe the command. I mention these general thoughts about `C-h m' because you brought up the general question. I have no problem with this bug being fixed by adding description in the manual. And perhaps modifiying what users see for `grep' in the UI.