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Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:41:54 -0400 Message-ID: <56E5B472.1070002@gmail.com> References: <87y49q64eg.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87wpp9dkux.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83twkbfofd.fsf@gnu.org> <838u1mfi7q.fsf@gnu.org> <83y49me19o.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lqk7bX40TpnTnG1bQT6lp6ixJQhp4jWSs" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457894547 17328 80.91.229.3 (13 Mar 2016 18:42:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:42:27 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 13 19:42:18 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1afAy1-0003Eg-6m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 19:42:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37144 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afAy0-0005Xe-Ej for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:42:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54125) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afAxk-0005XZ-Tk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:42:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afAxg-0006xJ-PZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:42:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.134]:52046) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afAxg-0006xF-FA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:41:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [18.189.75.34] ([18.189.75.34]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue004) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LhiSr-1a17Eg1dPF-00mr0q for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 19:41:55 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 In-Reply-To: <83y49me19o.fsf@gnu.org> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:MOXRNGXpB0UJW58ZpQdhv5XSgsOJbs4AIH2/g6WsU/+XlhaI+wt vNxDJS4EjuAf41BnueIS1ZjUgmuZQ4QqYWFSxAAkqWVpsvZllOtI/NzIcov45/HfFLAgaFK Wga2QI81pb696QetXvFPzfqu91OA8oUl2scOnCteUOcbnJu06hR8GEMewZJPfnopx30JMB6 CO7EmAW4zMK2MIRMGXqpg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:UHk7EIgSS68=:C4mBHu/JdWebxy8ikX97oE SZS+NoYJRcqCcVhsgylEJ8l+dt67ghn1ygOakcY1SKvRNZdUyKrAYx/hbjLtMvTOtce3JtNYO HTHl6MTLAlPI+JK/Oj6PQjAlXCupo6dsp7TZQg7rsjr3BjPlec3ZEKkmrrIWxHbTU0Lvpy+o5 1P1OIvu+DYHwrQDcw+I7ggONWYM9itkszyuNKXIBdqG0yqATRcGGRSIjUuA5mG/FwPm1KDrql +LSWyzsGankTlR/ucCvDw8LUsKfAPwqwxOVEHiVccmqw9Wa7FUerqMcTOvbVfX1cgm+HOnQtS VkPvDbcbR8xpBnPZgEzKhVJLCbBFRO/tzV817+T1E2bw6Aic1e2enq17Gch5579idKXm3Jwwr 8EXTB8LM0OmhMz8u1VIGASXR9SjX8WEwmWVHF5/MoxZsWi7R4kj47FeeylpFP8bdmp3coyNKX h4b1/mI27ztwU0vdlK57mBnX/1kCVBYe89anNwqL9Wm9tAmIsyUfexhq+byO9K+SxOjaOhYWV psX9F7QBwmk7gn1r/3SuL5e5kHlEcwinjgfBmLLsblxaqmcyvJ7pSBjkkgso/RmB4l3kedXkm +I+NuHNg2MEniSkYZEeWm/jrXGEmwVPIVmKdQeQZqCcA7fT6QSr11xJ0rKk8DLQFdlTpCSo5v Z6/nA2RdlMXBtOtPbi43m1TGvMkrxxelsBrSuSLLGftHFFOknusII8BK4MIFdkyUrgxw= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.126.134 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201631 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --lqk7bX40TpnTnG1bQT6lp6ixJQhp4jWSs Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="BISF9bvGkBHcq1PeoAPrmvhKoJnMCWGAr" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Message-ID: <56E5B472.1070002@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Why does the tutorial talk about C-n/C-p etc? References: <87y49q64eg.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87wpp9dkux.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83twkbfofd.fsf@gnu.org> <838u1mfi7q.fsf@gnu.org> <83y49me19o.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83y49me19o.fsf@gnu.org> --BISF9bvGkBHcq1PeoAPrmvhKoJnMCWGAr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03/13/2016 01:27 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > That would fit most of the tutorial. >=20 > Things that are truly indispensable are mostly those which the readers > already know: basic cursor motion, inserting a character and deleting > a character. The only other necessary stiff is C-x C-f and C-x C-s, > but those can be replaced by menu-bar commands. Hey Eli, Here are a few things that I struggled with when I started using Emacs (p= hrased in terms of concepts that I was already familiar with) * Opening and saving a file * Copying (or cutting) and pasting * Undoing, and in particular the notion of undoing an undo * Using C-u as a prefix * Searching (and replacing) * The notion of major and minor modes Interestingly, the tutorial does cover all of this; but it also tried to = train me to be efficient at things that I didn't care (like having me jum= p around the buffer, paging through things with C-v, etc): what I wanted = was a five minutes introduction which would: * Give me enough to survive in Emacs with more or less the same productiv= ity as I has in GEdit (which was pretty low) * Teach me a few cool features so that I felt compelled to keep using Ema= cs Based on this, it would be easy to pick up more stuff along the way. Speaking of cool features, here are a few ones that are very simple to co= mprehend, but that I find very useful; I think the tutorial could expose = them: * C-SPC C-SPC to mark a point * C-u C-SPC to jump to a previously marked point * C-w marking the following word during a search In addition, I think many people get attracted to Emacs for a particular = programming language, so I like the suggestion of the tutorial branching = up into various directions after exposing the basics. One final idea: maybe the tutorial could showcase more of Emacs' fancy fe= atures? Like syntax highlighting, spell checking, image support, indentat= ion, and similar things? Right now it's a plain text buffer in fundamenta= l mode. 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