From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Angelo Graziosi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22727: Managing packages writes the user init file Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:04:09 +0100 Message-ID: <56C63FD9.4050102@alice.it> References: <56C51520.6020205@alice.it> <8337squfpy.fsf@gnu.org> <56C6122B.4050903@alice.it> <8360xlu5i0.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455833128 7229 80.91.229.3 (18 Feb 2016 22:05:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 22:05:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 18 23:05:11 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWhC-0001f1-OL for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:05:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46048 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWhC-0003yf-7B for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:05:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49933) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWh8-0003xa-Ao for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:05:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWh4-00009Z-Ae for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:05:06 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:36171) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWh4-00009U-6w for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:05:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWh3-0006mk-UR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:05:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Angelo Graziosi Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 22:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22727 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 22727-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22727.145583305226023 (code B ref 22727); Thu, 18 Feb 2016 22:05:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2016 22:04:12 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33298 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWgG-0006lf-7Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:04:12 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp202.alice.it ([82.57.200.98]:61662) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aWWgE-0006lP-EI for 22727@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 17:04:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [192.168.1.101] (79.19.230.242) by smtp202.alice.it (8.6.060.43) (authenticated as angelo.graziosi@alice.it) id 5697B30A072DB340; Thu, 18 Feb 2016 23:04:00 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 In-Reply-To: <8360xlu5i0.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:113261 Archived-At: Il 18/02/2016 21:29, Eli Zaretskii ha scritto: >> Cc: 22727@debbugs.gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org >> From: Angelo Graziosi >> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 19:49:15 +0100 >> >> The problem here is NOT that when one customizes something this is saved >> in the init file but that also when one does not customize anything, the >> init file is changed, more or less silently. For example clicking >> Options -Manage Emacs packages. > > If we solve this part, i.e. avoid modifying .emacs until the user > actually selects some packages to install, would that address your > concerns that triggered this bug report? No. 1. As I tried to explain, I haven't opened this report to see fixed an issue for me. Please read: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-02/msg00989.html On emacs-devel there is a discussion in which others think Emacs should not change the init file when one manages Emacs packages. 2. Since I discovered this behavior, each time I need to manege packages (I have some packages installed from MELPA), I save my init file and restore it after the managing. So I never used those additions and Emacs seems to work the same. Indeed I don't understand why installing packages should change MY init file.. 3. Anyway, I am not an Emacs developer so it could be the case that for some obscure (to me) reason, Emacs needs those additions/informations. If this is true, why not use another packages configuration files? On emacs-devel it seems that other users/developers would prefer that.. Given the nature of the addictions, (custom-set-variables ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom. ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. '(package-selected-packages (quote (bla bla bla)))) (custom-set-faces ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom. ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful. ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance. ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right. ) why not to use a separate file also for Options - Customize Emacs? If I understand the discussion on emacs-devel someone proposes to use something like "customize-emacs" both for managing packages and "Customize Emacs". This seems reasonable. Se also http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2016-02/msg01034.html, where I reported a raw example how things could be from the end user POV. In any case, I can live with current status. 4. This thread seems to have all the prerequisites to become another of those endless thread, so please close this bug report (who is interested could always reopen another) or remove me from the discussion. Thanks, Angelo. > > As for silent modifications: if the user accepts some options that > should remain in effect for future sessions, that's a reason good > enough to save these settings. This is what Custom does when you save > the customizations for future sessions. > > Thanks. >