From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Character folding in the pretest Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 14:52:45 -0500 Message-ID: <56B3AC0D.7020902@gmail.com> References: <87mvriuk3a.fsf@gmail.com> <8737t9ex1p.fsf@petton.fr> <83oabxyf71.fsf@gnu.org> <56B230D1.90902@gmail.com> <87bn7x4i4o.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87d1sc4rin.fsf@djcbsoftware.nl> <87vb6431rd.fsf@wanadoo.es> <56B37DF4.7000808@gmail.com> <87mvrg2zid.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83lh70wgbb.fsf@gnu.org> <878u302rqe.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9dn3ts9MSPDOcCiTUJMcjUdAUtKqJoTVq" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1454615589 12540 80.91.229.3 (4 Feb 2016 19:53:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 19:53:09 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 04 20:53:00 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aRPxZ-0003gZ-To for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 20:52:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43785 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRPxZ-0000Jp-3Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:52:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37745) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRPxU-0000Iz-Np for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:52:53 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRPxR-00007T-7S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:52:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.131]:49208) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRPxQ-00006j-UD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 14:52:49 -0500 Original-Received: from [18.26.2.123] ([18.26.2.123]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LtzaY-1a1StF0xzq-011UjN for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 20:52:47 +0100 X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 In-Reply-To: <878u302rqe.fsf@wanadoo.es> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:LXeAU4oE0wrxtORCL8UBDP5c9L5Tsxk2RCbW/D7u8oka1RDym6F ZhyKkp6miBiufKn1JRbo3pvJRvTImESH8LVeLvMBEMI+hPOaQrcy6qxJNL08RHtF7jT4vBP y2jxEzwogWzIK5OdPWUwO8urb37qVNaLNl+R09irZZmxEjknH/DtVG8MQjgfLCdfIHrj+B6 EpHmprydqLDHTQXWaTYNw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:BoqmMg+dguY=:E4ydgPRLT+8yYJXBpQqkj/ ojYkoUTk9yfXMsrQx5lLpe6iqzij1dJO1hXe5nYVGGiWY8vLsoK78ldSzgnIKb3zRbIx2KUSD tEZPltItWzfL6teCVubyKETi4sbs9cGiszs5i3eKVKLm3VAQ1amKCNKPQwrpHketX27/B0BeV KvWTu0/u9yO8mCxrCWyvuTsz0PV8x/n+ZlYerqkNTIngwocj1tlPnXbt8CsPBGIXlkETTIlST TSqoQnrJIvStDs/Zw0fbGQEbD6sXCeHfoZAI8oTFzQ/PhxDjfGsDQvrEg7zScVa2Hc1jVUBcY ZZTHlv0H0DHB6d6TdCLzc+38XjOiU1w8UOrtek9vGklwAvHaRxVPWlGuwLXOcKRDn+LBRxR30 YPAgGYGvG+LJTxbZx9DzVGozdeJFJsoXCjBZspPfb28O/U21OgJdk5NAOrva+J+HcC836TE5P 0rrdeTRVs6hlHWCb7axKYQgIYjEf95VPxjAArQx8fCOyZq0jJ0z+glItsQuz6Y796Jw5kCGjP /As1dyMx77T1Nz604gh5aaXtDnWCjAHRbmwzRmhbOkDLXDwBH0VKGA1ClHf0xpllOruDcDK0g YCPn3M6XUVL3iv64LDlUMjVLhf3HpPc3VlU5SUKCCn3hsV3SVaJubTs+2bbk679dYTiizVBWM L9Tcs63YCvOnyXH4TbA0cPDtrCav0v1eLn2IrA4W4tUozSyJEDx6fZ5SmkgvvaJlfm+Y= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.126.131 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199326 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --9dn3ts9MSPDOcCiTUJMcjUdAUtKqJoTVq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 02/04/2016 02:35 PM, =C3=93scar Fuentes wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 >>> I see your point, but you are talking about accents all the time. In >>> Spanish `n' and `=C3=B1' are different letters. `n' matching `=C3=B1'= is no >>> different than `p' matching `q'. >> >> Unicode disagrees: >> >> M-: (get-char-code-property ?=C3=B1 'decomposition) RET >> >> =3D> (110 771) >> >> 110 is 'n' and 771 is U+0303 NON-SPACING TILDE, a combining accent. >=20 > AFAIK Unicode doesn't mandate what the Spanish alphabet is. >=20 > I thought that the point of the feature was to provide searching with > support for character equivalence classes, which is very useful for the= > case of Spanish (and other languages, I'm sure). But you are saying tha= t > the feature is about how the characters are encoded by the computer and= > not about how they are used by people. If that is true, it should be > disabled by default. Why? This feature is simply folding as specified by the Unicode standard.= Hopefully the way it is implemented will indeed lend itself to future ex= tensions; using it for user-defined classes of substitutions would be nic= e. But I don't understand why the possibility of fancier (though less cle= arly defined) folding should disqualify this feature from becoming the de= fault. Also, it's not easy (I'd guess not possible) to give any sort of precise = meaning to =E2=80=98how characters are used by people=E2=80=99. I still f= ind this simple character folding quite useful; I just accept that it's v= isual folding, not semantic folding (and this list is well aware of the d= ifficulties that arise when one tries to assign semantic meaning to chara= cters; cf. the =E2=80=98=E2=80=99 vs `' debate). The semantics of this si= mple folding are as uncontroversial as can be; we're following an establi= shed standard. Maybe there's a better behaved notion of folding out there= , but I'm not sure why its existence is relevant to the choice of a defau= lt, since we don't have an implementation (nor a spec) for that alternati= ve. 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