RE: how to turn off automatic curly-quoting?

[Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>]

> > I thought that the recent move to using curly quotes was
> > going to be optional for users.  But so far, it seems to
> > be hard-coded.  E.g., in `describe-function'.
> 
> Please be more specific about what do you think is hard-coded
> in 'describe-function'.  It's hard to respond to such a vague
> request/claim.

Below, please.

> > Please tell us how a user can turn off this purportedly
> > optional curly-quote behavior - everywhere.
> 
> Again, "everywhere" is too broad.

Not for me, it's not.  I'm one user who wants to turn it off 
_everywhere_, just as it was before this change.  I would
like a user option that restores the "Classic Emacs" behavior
of `...' instead of '...' that we've enjoyed for 40 years.

> My best guess is that you want to customize
> 'help-quote-translation', but please verify that it is
> what you want.

It seems to be.  Thanks.  But you tell me.  Does it restore
the behavior as it was - everywhere?  IOW, does it effectively
remove this feature of replacing `...' by curly-quoting
everywhere that the replacement is done?  If it does, then
great. If it does not, then not so great.

> If it is, you will find it mentioned in NEWS,

I see it now.  I saw the manual updated for curly quoting,
but with no mention of this option.  And grepping Lisp
shows it only in cus-edit.el (not relevant).  Its handling
is evidently only in C code (I don't have that code locally).

> so if that entry needs to be amended, please tell what
> is missing from it.

The main problem with the option is its default value.
This feature should be opt-in, not opt-out, IMHO.
Please give us "Classic Emacs" by default, and let those
who are offended by `...' and want something fancier opt
for that by customizing the option.

Please consider also changing the option values so that
you can use `M-x set-variable` in a reasonable way (i.e.,
without needing to know that ?` is 96 etc. - you cannot
type ?` at the prompt).  Character values are not helpful
in such a context.

Also, why is the name about "translation"?  Shouldn't
this option just be about what style is used for quoting
Emacs terms?  I don't see it as only about "help", though
I suppose you can interpret that term as broadly as you
like.  It is about how Emacs talks about itself.  Is that
just "help", or is it something more?

Anyway, "help" is not the biggest problem with the name.
"Translation" speaks perhaps to the implementation changes
made recently, but it is not a user-facing way to describe
what the option controls.

I would sooner imagine "style" or "format" or some such
term in the name than "translation".  The user should not
need to think that s?he is translating something or that
s?he is asking Emacs to translate something.  That
presupposes that there is something original that can be
translated.  That's what the new code does, perhaps
(translates a default format to another one).  But that's
not how a user should need to think about it.

[Another problem (but it will continue to be a problem,
I guess) is that in some fonts it can be difficult to tell
what the different quote chars are, when reading about
the possible option values.]

> > Oh, and please put this info in the Emacs manual, as well
> > as NEWS.
> 
> The above variable is in the ELisp manual already.

It is not in the most recent Windows binary I have (from
7/03).  If it was added since then, great; thanks.

Hopefully it is also mentioned (e.g. cross-referenced) each
time the manual mentions such quoting, and in particular in
the two nodes where curly quotes are mentioned.

> In any case, contents of manuals is not finalized until
> Emacs is in pretest.

Yes, I know.  What I found was that the feature of curly
quoting in this way was documented (`electric-quote-mode',
node `Quotation Marks'), but there was (so far) nothing
about `help-quote-translation'.

To me, how to turn it off is at least as important as
advertising the new feature.  Anyway, even if it was only
a late arrival or an afterthought, I'm glad the option was
added (and documented).

As for the question about hard-coding curly quotes in
help: I was obviously mistaken.

It turns out that the many printings of ' and ', are each
wrapped in `substitute-command-keys', which (coded in C)
is presumably where these chars are in fact *not* printed
if `help-quote-translation' has a sane value.  None of
this was obvious to me from examining the Lisp code.

FWIW: The doc string of `substitute-command-keys' is
not too bad.  But I find it confusing that it refers
to "left and right quote characters" as something other
than the "quotation mark" character referred to in the
doc of `help-quote-translation'.

IOW, please try to more clearly distinguish the notion of
abstract, configurable left and right quote characters
(and use the qualifier "single") from the concrete left
and right single quotation mark chars (aka curly quotes).
Otherwise this becomes difficult to read, if not altogether
unintelligible.

Paul & company would presumably be the first to say that
` and ' are not "left and right quote characters".  Some
better way of talking about this needs to be found, IMO.