From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Change of Lisp syntax for "fancy" quotes in Emacs 27? Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 15:43:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <566b8c5d-e9c4-4e23-9d2c-097243b030ac@default> References: <83y3bc2378.fsf@gnu.org> <834ldvyu7c.fsf@gnu.org> <3d80c389-aa47-008a-c007-3655e8759a04@cs.ucla.edu> <871s8zexno.fsf@igel.home> <83in29ygng.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1539186119 23526 195.159.176.226 (10 Oct 2018 15:41:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 15:41:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Eli Zaretskii , Andreas Schwab Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 10 17:41:54 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gAGcT-0005zw-6i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:41:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57889 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gAGeZ-0002Yi-AP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:44:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46552) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gAGe9-0002MI-6m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:43:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gAGe8-0006UN-D0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:43:37 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:54920) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gAGe4-0006SJ-Jp; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:43:32 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w9AFa1IC119244; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 15:43:24 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=QSvKV0cH7FcggXVKDK04gAqFGwj01r3Yo44M96NE36Q=; b=ZY9eAvMWP4zZndsep7ZpokKNaIbiJsQUr0d97bTdEID94pJE7gfX6Mg+e82Ni1FQv8KL MlSDSx68Rp5bccuVkgVOrw+Mkm6QDTLQep1zkJ/kGP1lJFnyYze8UHf6jDTQvnLtOb19 jnxM1LCq3np5Kh3XRNVLpILRwE1WcxYS1OyM63E/P+SRGtwIPvLYjHdI7i7FTx/2hZ2I gNnAY7iF37LNo/x7QlPgZMQ7IYkRk4kB9F5yj76v1KdbmmUG+hpOawFhPtvUaetCuXB/ 0J4fwquLTQ1hIeU/br+wX1X0mvfiOxncWxw9wWR+ZSS0tpkUmfDm/6UC0xHY8x2AaSUc fw== Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2mxn0q50ph-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 10 Oct 2018 15:43:24 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w9AFhNan030826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 10 Oct 2018 15:43:23 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w9AFhMdD026913; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 15:43:22 GMT In-Reply-To: <83in29ygng.fsf@gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4735.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9041 signatures=668706 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=720 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1810100153 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.78 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:230311 Archived-At: It sounds like the contexts where a char might be confused with another are varied and depend on things that can even include user attention and intention. If we want to help users be aware of character-confusion possibilities then I think whatever we offer them in this regard needs to be (1) optional and (2) configurable (granularity, specifying contexts/uses/conditions, etc.). I think we can offer to help by highlighting characters (or their surrounding contexts, e.g., when a char is tiny or otherwise unobtrusive or invisible). I think we should avoid raising errors, but that could be an option that some users might want to choose in some contexts. We could perhaps offer a range of help responses, from a range of highlighting possibilities to outright error-raising. We can have code that tries to be clever, but that should only be used if asked for by a user. We should not try to second-guess text or users by default. The last thing we should want is to bother users by default, or systematically, warning them left and right about possibilities of confusion. Such warnings or notifications or highlights need to be opt-in, IMHO. Above all, Emacs, and especially Emacs Lisp, should continue to be an environment where you can do what you want without obstruction or unnecessary hand-holding or helicopter-parenting. (Note that I qualified that with "unnecessary". If there is some real, strong, unambiguous danger that we can identify then of course we need to offer protection up front. That help would not be "unnecessary".)