* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
@ 2020-10-29 21:00 Drew Adams
2020-10-29 21:27 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-29 22:10 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2020-10-29 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 44316
emacs -Q
M-x customize-face fixed-pitch
M-x customize-face fixed-pitch-serif
Face `fixed-pitch' has serifs. Face `fixed-pitch-serif' has NO serifs.
Something is wrong, here. Dunno how you might want to fix it, but the
names definitely don't fit the actual default fonts used.
They use font families Monospace and Monospace serif, respectively.
Presumably the problem is at that level?
This bug has been present ever since `fixed-pitch-serif' was first provided, in Emacs 25.
In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32)
of 2019-08-29
Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.18362
Configured using:
`configure --without-dbus --host=x86_64-w64-mingw32
--without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2 -static -g3''
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-29 21:00 bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be Drew Adams
@ 2020-10-29 21:27 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-31 8:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-29 22:10 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2020-10-29 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 44316
BTW -
Since `fixed-pitch' has looked more or less the same
from the beginning, and in particular it has had
serifs, maybe instead of, or in addition to, having
face `fixed-pitch-serif' we should have a face
`fixed-pitch-sans-serif'?
Or maybe we should go ahead and change the appearance
of `fixed-pitch', so it does not have serifs?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-29 21:27 ` Drew Adams
@ 2020-10-31 8:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-10-31 8:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 44316
> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 14:27:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
>
> Since `fixed-pitch' has looked more or less the same
> from the beginning, and in particular it has had
> serifs, maybe instead of, or in addition to, having
> face `fixed-pitch-serif' we should have a face
> `fixed-pitch-sans-serif'?
We could do that, indeed.
> Or maybe we should go ahead and change the appearance
> of `fixed-pitch', so it does not have serifs?
As I explained in my other message, this is impossible, at least not
without backward-incompatible changes. So I don't think we should do
this part.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-29 21:00 bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be Drew Adams
2020-10-29 21:27 ` Drew Adams
@ 2020-10-29 22:10 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-29 22:22 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-30 12:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
1 sibling, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-10-29 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams, 44316
Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
> emacs -Q
>
> M-x customize-face fixed-pitch
> M-x customize-face fixed-pitch-serif
>
> Face `fixed-pitch' has serifs. Face `fixed-pitch-serif' has NO serifs.
That's not what I see here, FWIW.
- fixed-pitch uses "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono"
- fixed-pitch-serif uses "Courier 10 Pitch"
Could this be Windows specific?
In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 17, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
3.24.23, cairo version 1.16.0)
of 2020-10-29 built on joffe
Repository revision: 020a334992b17a4dd72053c9c7f7d5c125340c54
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12008000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-29 22:10 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2020-10-29 22:22 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-29 22:31 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-30 12:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2020-10-29 22:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas, 44316
> That's not what I see here, FWIW.
>
> - fixed-pitch uses "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono"
> - fixed-pitch-serif uses "Courier 10 Pitch"
>
> Could this be Windows specific?
Dunno. Where do you see which font it uses, like that?
M-x customize-face, for me, has all attributes unchecked
except for Font Family, and that's `Monospace' and
`Monospace Serif'. And `describe-face' likewise.
And the definitions in faces.el have only :family, with
the same "Monospace" and "Monospace Serif" values.
In faces.el, searching for "Monospace", I see that
option `face-font-family-alternatives' maps `purecopy'
over some lists of strings ("Monospace" "courier" "fixed")
("Monospace Serif" "Courier 10 Pitch" ...)...
;; In the absence of Fontconfig support, Monospace and Sans Serif are
;; unavailable, and we fall back on the courier and helv families,
;; which are generally available.
;; Monospace Serif is an Emacs invention, intended to work around
;; portability problems when using Courier. It should work well
;; when combined with Monospaced and with other standard fonts.
;; One of its uses is for 'tex-verbatim' and 'Info-quoted' faces,
;; so the result must be different from the default face's font,
;; and must be monospaced. For 'tex-verbatim', it is desirable
;; that the font really is a Serif font, so as to look like
;; TeX's 'verbatim'.
Not that I understand any of this. But clearly the one
with the serifs is `fixed-pitch' (on MS Windows 10, here).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-29 22:22 ` Drew Adams
@ 2020-10-29 22:31 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-29 22:50 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-10-29 22:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams, 44316
Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> That's not what I see here, FWIW.
>>
>> - fixed-pitch uses "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono"
>> - fixed-pitch-serif uses "Courier 10 Pitch"
>>
>> Could this be Windows specific?
>
> Dunno. Where do you see which font it uses, like that?
Put point on the sample text and:
C-u C-x = (a.k.a. `what-cursor-position')
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-29 22:31 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2020-10-29 22:50 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-30 0:45 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2020-10-29 22:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas, 44316
> Put point on the sample text and:
> C-u C-x = (a.k.a. `what-cursor-position')
Of course I did that. I was looking for something like
what you wrote: "fixed-pitch uses...".
In my case (emacs -Q), the fonts are these:
gdi:-raster-Courier-normal-normal-normal-mono-16-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1 (#x73)
face fixed-pitch
uniscribe:-outline-Consolas-normal-normal-normal-mono-16-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1 (#x83)
face fixed-pitch-serif
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-29 22:50 ` Drew Adams
@ 2020-10-30 0:45 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-10-30 0:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams, 44316
Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> Put point on the sample text and:
>> C-u C-x = (a.k.a. `what-cursor-position')
>
> Of course I did that. I was looking for something like
> what you wrote: "fixed-pitch uses...".
It was just the result of manual editing, sorry if I misunderstood you.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-29 22:10 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-29 22:22 ` Drew Adams
@ 2020-10-30 12:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-30 13:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-30 13:45 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2020-10-30 12:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: 44316
Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:
> That's not what I see here, FWIW.
>
> - fixed-pitch uses "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono"
> - fixed-pitch-serif uses "Courier 10 Pitch"
I'm getting Dejavu Sans Mono for both (Debian bullseye).
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-30 12:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2020-10-30 13:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-30 13:45 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-10-30 13:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 13:55:57 +0100
> Cc: 44316@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > That's not what I see here, FWIW.
> >
> > - fixed-pitch uses "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono"
> > - fixed-pitch-serif uses "Courier 10 Pitch"
>
> I'm getting Dejavu Sans Mono for both (Debian bullseye).
So we have a similar (though somewhat different) problem on GNU/Linux.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-30 12:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-30 13:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-10-30 13:45 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-30 13:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-10-30 13:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 44316
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> That's not what I see here, FWIW.
>>
>> - fixed-pitch uses "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono"
>> - fixed-pitch-serif uses "Courier 10 Pitch"
>
> I'm getting Dejavu Sans Mono for both (Debian bullseye).
I'm also on Debian bullseye. I wonder what causes the different things
we are seeing. Sounds likely that we have different font related
packages installed, right?
I also have some local font modifications, but I they are only adding a
bunch of bitmap fonts that I like to use for my status bar. Not sure if
there's some other junk lying around, or how to check if there is.
BTW, is there any way to run Emacs with the default font configuration,
without any user configuration?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-30 13:45 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2020-10-30 13:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-31 8:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2020-10-30 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: 44316
Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:
> I'm also on Debian bullseye. I wonder what causes the different things
> we are seeing. Sounds likely that we have different font related
> packages installed, right?
Yup. This is with "emacs -Q", by the way, which I failed to mention
the last time, but it seems like I'm getting the same in my normal Emacs.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-30 13:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2020-10-31 8:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-01 12:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-10-31 8:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 14:48:00 +0100
> Cc: 44316@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I'm also on Debian bullseye. I wonder what causes the different things
> > we are seeing. Sounds likely that we have different font related
> > packages installed, right?
>
> Yup. This is with "emacs -Q", by the way, which I failed to mention
> the last time, but it seems like I'm getting the same in my normal Emacs.
I think one part of the problem here is that "Mono" family (which is
what fixed-pitch uses) doesn't say whether the result will be with or
without serifs. So you can get a font either with or without the
serifs, depending on what fonts are installed and perhaps also on some
local configuration.
The other part of the problem, which could be Windows-specific, is
that the MS-Windows font back-ends don't know about "Mono Serif"
family. Do you always get a font with serifs when the family is "Mono
Serif"? If so, we could perhaps teach MS-Windows do the same. But
the result might be that both faces get the same font -- are we okay
with that? One place where that could matter is in Info.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-10-31 8:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-11-01 12:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-01 15:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2020-11-01 12:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 526 bytes --]
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> The other part of the problem, which could be Windows-specific, is
> that the MS-Windows font back-ends don't know about "Mono Serif"
> family. Do you always get a font with serifs when the family is "Mono
> Serif"? If so, we could perhaps teach MS-Windows do the same. But
> the result might be that both faces get the same font -- are we okay
> with that? One place where that could matter is in Info.
It looks like DejaVu Mono only has one variation, and it's... with
serifs?
[-- Attachment #2: Type: image/png, Size: 19338 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 105 bytes --]
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-11-01 12:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2020-11-01 15:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-02 15:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-11-01 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, 44316@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 13:41:30 +0100
>
> > The other part of the problem, which could be Windows-specific, is
> > that the MS-Windows font back-ends don't know about "Mono Serif"
> > family. Do you always get a font with serifs when the family is "Mono
> > Serif"? If so, we could perhaps teach MS-Windows do the same. But
> > the result might be that both faces get the same font -- are we okay
> > with that? One place where that could matter is in Info.
>
> It looks like DejaVu Mono only has one variation, and it's... with
> serifs?
No, it's without serifs, AFAICS.
But that's not what I was asking: the "Mono Serif" family could
include more than just DejaVu Mono. I'm asking whether asking for
that family always brings fonts with serifs, or sometimes you get
fonts without serifs? If you get DejaVu Mono, I guess the answer is
"the latter"?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-11-01 15:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-11-02 15:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-02 16:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-03 15:32 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2020-11-02 15:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 207 bytes --]
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> It looks like DejaVu Mono only has one variation, and it's... with
>> serifs?
>
> No, it's without serifs, AFAICS.
I'm not sure. The "i" here has serifs, surely?
[-- Attachment #2: Type: image/png, Size: 1487 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 494 bytes --]
But if this is a serifed face, the serifs aren't very... dominant.
> But that's not what I was asking: the "Mono Serif" family could
> include more than just DejaVu Mono. I'm asking whether asking for
> that family always brings fonts with serifs, or sometimes you get
> fonts without serifs? If you get DejaVu Mono, I guess the answer is
> "the latter"?
You do I ask for the family?
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-11-02 15:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2020-11-02 16:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-03 14:36 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-03 15:32 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-11-02 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, 44316@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 16:09:23 +0100
>
> >> It looks like DejaVu Mono only has one variation, and it's... with
> >> serifs?
> >
> > No, it's without serifs, AFAICS.
>
> I'm not sure. The "i" here has serifs, surely?
But the "T" isn't, surely?
> > But that's not what I was asking: the "Mono Serif" family could
> > include more than just DejaVu Mono. I'm asking whether asking for
> > that family always brings fonts with serifs, or sometimes you get
> > fonts without serifs? If you get DejaVu Mono, I guess the answer is
> > "the latter"?
>
> You do I ask for the family?
The family "Mono Serif" is an Emacs invention, AFAIK. Font utilities
are under no obligation to support it.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-11-02 16:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-11-03 14:36 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-03 15:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2020-11-03 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> I'm not sure. The "i" here has serifs, surely?
>
> But the "T" isn't, surely?
Nope. I guess it's basically a sans serif face, but with some serifs
for clarity here and there.
>> > But that's not what I was asking: the "Mono Serif" family could
>> > include more than just DejaVu Mono. I'm asking whether asking for
>> > that family always brings fonts with serifs, or sometimes you get
>> > fonts without serifs? If you get DejaVu Mono, I guess the answer is
>> > "the latter"?
>>
>> You do I ask for the family?
>
> The family "Mono Serif" is an Emacs invention, AFAIK. Font utilities
> are under no obligation to support it.
Sorry; I mistyped. I meant to say 'How do I ask for the family?'
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-11-03 14:36 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2020-11-03 15:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-05 14:57 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-11-03 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, 44316@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 15:36:01 +0100
>
> >> > But that's not what I was asking: the "Mono Serif" family could
> >> > include more than just DejaVu Mono. I'm asking whether asking for
> >> > that family always brings fonts with serifs, or sometimes you get
> >> > fonts without serifs? If you get DejaVu Mono, I guess the answer is
> >> > "the latter"?
> >>
> >> You do I ask for the family?
> >
> > The family "Mono Serif" is an Emacs invention, AFAIK. Font utilities
> > are under no obligation to support it.
>
> Sorry; I mistyped. I meant to say 'How do I ask for the family?'
Like this (from faces.el):
(defface fixed-pitch
'((t :family "Monospace"))
"The basic fixed-pitch face."
:group 'basic-faces)
(defface fixed-pitch-serif
'((t :family "Monospace Serif"))
"The basic fixed-pitch face with serifs."
:group 'basic-faces)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-11-03 15:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-11-05 14:57 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-05 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2020-11-05 14:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> >> > But that's not what I was asking: the "Mono Serif" family could
>> >> > include more than just DejaVu Mono. I'm asking whether asking for
>> >> > that family always brings fonts with serifs, or sometimes you get
>> >> > fonts without serifs? If you get DejaVu Mono, I guess the answer is
>> >> > "the latter"?
[...]
> Like this (from faces.el):
>
> (defface fixed-pitch
> '((t :family "Monospace"))
> "The basic fixed-pitch face."
> :group 'basic-faces)
>
> (defface fixed-pitch-serif
> '((t :family "Monospace Serif"))
> "The basic fixed-pitch face with serifs."
> :group 'basic-faces)
Oh, right. Then the answer is "the latter". :-)
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-11-05 14:57 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2020-11-05 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-11-05 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 44316, stefankangas
> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, 44316@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 15:57:29 +0100
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> >> >> > But that's not what I was asking: the "Mono Serif" family could
> >> >> > include more than just DejaVu Mono. I'm asking whether asking for
> >> >> > that family always brings fonts with serifs, or sometimes you get
> >> >> > fonts without serifs? If you get DejaVu Mono, I guess the answer is
> >> >> > "the latter"?
>
> [...]
>
> > Like this (from faces.el):
> >
> > (defface fixed-pitch
> > '((t :family "Monospace"))
> > "The basic fixed-pitch face."
> > :group 'basic-faces)
> >
> > (defface fixed-pitch-serif
> > '((t :family "Monospace Serif"))
> > "The basic fixed-pitch face with serifs."
> > :group 'basic-faces)
>
> Oh, right. Then the answer is "the latter". :-)
So the conclusion, AFAIU, is that this is just how this font family
behaves.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be
2020-11-02 15:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-02 16:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-11-03 15:32 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-11-03 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 44316
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> It looks like DejaVu Mono only has one variation, and it's... with
>>> serifs?
>>
>> No, it's without serifs, AFAICS.
>
> I'm not sure. The "i" here has serifs, surely?
I believe you need to look at the typeface as a whole, and not just one
character in isolation.
The decorations on the "i" character are not really to be considered as
serifs, I don't think. They are just part of the appearance of "i" in
that typeface.
You could compare it to the "i" character in the Ubuntu Mono font, or
even the "I" character, which is advertised (by experts in the field) to
be sans-serif:
https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Ubuntu+Mono
That said, it's not like this is an exact science. There is quite a bit
of wiggle room within the broad categories "serif" and "sans-serif".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-11-05 15:39 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-10-29 21:00 bug#44316: 26.3; Faces `fixed-pitch' and `fixed-pitch-serif' are opposite what they should be Drew Adams
2020-10-29 21:27 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-31 8:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-29 22:10 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-29 22:22 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-29 22:31 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-29 22:50 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-30 0:45 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-30 12:55 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-30 13:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-30 13:45 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-30 13:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-31 8:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-01 12:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-01 15:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-02 15:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-02 16:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-03 14:36 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-03 15:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-05 14:57 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-11-05 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-03 15:32 ` Stefan Kangas
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