From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Ludlam Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:58:20 -0400 Message-ID: <5628DD6C.6000408@gmail.com> References: <83bncf3f9k.fsf@gnu.org> <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <871tcyexa9.fsf@fimbulvetr.bsc.es> <87612a7my2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <561DC925.5050001@siege-engine.com> <561E32D2.4060501@yandex.ru> <83wpum3ozk.fsf@gnu.org> <87si59ln6u.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <56224B63.3010803@yandex.ru> <562592ED.1070104@siege-engine.com> <56262577.70107@yandex.ru> <562702C2.6070505@gmail.com> <56276ECE.3090508@yandex.ru> <56281747.9050305@gmail.com> <56282664.3000409@yandex.ru> <56283D79.2070904@gmail.com> <5628C5E7.5060803@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445518756 1328 80.91.229.3 (22 Oct 2015 12:59:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 12:59:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: John Wiegley , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov , David Engster Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 22 14:59:05 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpFSP-0005SM-3R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:59:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59527 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpFSJ-000876-Lj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:58:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33795) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpFRq-0007he-99 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:58:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpFRn-00083v-4P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:58:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yk0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c07::234]:34763) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZpFRm-00082y-Vh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:58:23 -0400 Original-Received: by ykdr3 with SMTP id r3so81046600ykd.1 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 05:58:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=17jpvbryyET2Ok2kyRgwHvjTo3anF+dHTzJz39VsIJE=; b=cNSo/yEcnjd8crR4umC7M6b6L+IXT8tRTFDtrEizwlCHnhVxUuEnvqGncywk9cPYh2 C/z3UKG+OexEJJl3HVgxuhfDNXgeV0c35AIAT4yCAJGAOF8RHzoGSlDA0XtAHJMASIjK kkoyicH6xTYV6FhoFemTgYcH+nUb12U0dQ+Sx0XBjSIy095uHRcJfpsibmggg4Z38dpq pFYNYOAT3aGQ298tlkA7vXNs2cnaYVMb8RGqR+u0Jq9M1FZwF/xjxYu+wNapXMkYhZmH plvJVIB/dvhLxdKr+mCtS1sS1in0R7VSqn1R8DTXfm8WVMbHqBKmhr75FpURDHrJObl1 HU7g== X-Received: by 10.13.255.4 with SMTP id p4mr10662336ywf.88.1445518702137; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 05:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.202] (pool-71-184-198-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [71.184.198.118]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f133sm9678062ywa.27.2015.10.22.05.58.20 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Oct 2015 05:58:21 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 In-Reply-To: <5628C5E7.5060803@yandex.ru> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4002:c07::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192377 Archived-At: On 10/22/2015 07:17 AM, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 10/22/2015 04:35 AM, Eric Ludlam wrote: > >> I'm not sure what is relevant here as far as listing features. There are >> 12 minor modes that come with semantic doing various diverse things. >> Things like idle-summary-mode will show you an api summary of the symbol >> under point. > > Robe already supports eldoc-mode. If idle-summary-mode has some UI > advantages, I believe they should be folded into eldoc-mode as well. > Semantic's idle process handling makes sure databases are synchronized once, then enables tools to run after, so it is more about the scheduling of different tools that use semantic. In addition, by going through the semantic version, there are a range of different formatting options to use that the user can select from. That doesn't require idle-summary-mode, but is a side effect of using semantic to extract contextual information. Also, eldoc only supported Emacs Lisp and no extensions when I wrote the semantic idle handler. Other features of idle-summary-mode would port fine between either. >> There is COGRE which can pull data from the >> buffer, reference some databases, and pop up a uml diagram of your code >> which is a bit over-the-top. > > COGRE sounds good, but I imagine it'll need more support than just > dumping the AST. > > And I can't get it to do anything (here's the documentation for > automatic generation: > http://www.randomsample.de/cedetdocs/cogre/Semantic-Support.html#Semantic-Support, > and trying to interact with the editor manually leads to "eieio-oref: > eieio-oref called on a class: cogre-class", etc). > > It's also not in Emacs, for some reason. It was deemed optional when Yidong merged CEDET into Emacs. You will probably need to use Emacs24 to make it work. To try it out do this: 1) Install graphviz (it uses that for the layout engine) 2) Start emacs 24 3) Use CEDET from it's git repository 4) M-x find-library RET cogre RET 5) find cogre-element-peer in the code 6) M-x cogre-uml-quick-class RET should get you something to play with. > (*) Other things that the users ask for is fuzzy completion, showing > completions right away after dot (Robe isn't fast enough for that) and > working over TRAMP inside a Vagrant environment. It doesn't seem like > CEDET integration will help with any of those. > CEDET is a framework that provides an abstraction for connecting different tools that need to talk about hard problems together. The problems it solves are related to project information, abstracting 'tag' information down to something Lisp programs can reason on, and abstracting code generation into a scheme that can allow lisp programs to support multiple languages. CEDET doesn't have 'fuzzy completion' but it can feed a fuzzy completion engine. CEDET doesn't do anything special with TRAMP, but someone could use CEDET to bind that workflow into the common workflow. When thinking about CEDET, it isn't about a bullet list of user facing features but about how it can enable someone working on said feature to have their work leveraged to a wider audience. Eric