From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Przemys=c5=82aw_Wojnowski?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:08:31 +0200 Message-ID: <5623618F.6030303@cumego.com> References: <5610E0BC.8090902@online.de> <83si5r106e.fsf@gnu.org> <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <871tcyexa9.fsf@fimbulvetr.bsc.es> <87612a7my2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <561DC925.5050001@siege-engine.com> <561E32D2.4060501@yandex.ru> <83wpum3ozk.fsf@gnu.org> <87si59ln6u.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <56224B63.3010803@yandex.ru> <87k2qlldny.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <5622AD4D.3010504@yandex.ru> <5622C5BA.2070209@cumego.com> <5622C696.2070200@yandex.ru> <5622CB80.4090700@cumego.com> <5622CDA6.5080600@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445159342 14742 80.91.229.3 (18 Oct 2015 09:09:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 09:09:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: John Wiegley , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov , David Engster Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 18 11:08:53 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnjxT-0001xP-LL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:08:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32942 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnjxS-0004XZ-ND for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:08:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40623) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnjxF-0004XR-Uu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:08:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnjxC-0003s6-OU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:08:37 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp23.iq.pl ([86.111.242.228]:42674) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnjxC-0003rt-EI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:08:34 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 1363 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2015 09:08:31 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.106]) (esperanto@cumego.com@[159.205.196.239]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp22.iq.pl with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Oct 2015 09:08:31 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 In-Reply-To: <5622CDA6.5080600@yandex.ru> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 86.111.242.228 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191920 Archived-At: W dniu 18.10.2015 o 00:37, Dmitry Gutov pisze: > On 10/18/2015 01:28 AM, Przemysław Wojnowski wrote: > >> I don't think it is possible, because languages are very different and >> their >> surrounding tooling is very different. > > The meanings of "go to definition", "find references" and "complete text at > point" are very much the same across languages. Yes, and EDE could be changed to provide such API. > Some refactorings, too. And some are not and will never be, because languages are too different. So IDE's support for them will be different or crippled to the lowest denominator as you seem to suggest. >> Yes. And I've looked at EDE at SF >> (http://sourceforge.net/p/cedet/git/ci/master/tree/lisp/cedet/ede/). >> There's support for many types of projects, build tools, etc. There are >> even some tests. > > A more idiomatic, Emacs-y What does that mean? Is it described somewhere what is idiomatic in Emacs Lisp? > API that isn't tied to CEDET, that's friendly to > third-party packages, and doesn't ask its caller to know the intricacies of > EDE's object hierarchies. Yes. This part would need to be changed in EDE. > You're welcome to work on making EDE more flexible, though. We can compare > progress later. I don't waste resources on duplicated efforts just to show my ego. Have many other things to work on. >> What's the point of reimplementing that from scratch? > > We can reuse code from EDE, if it fits. Depending on what you means by "it fits", but if that's possible, it's ok for me. My only concern is that EDE is something that already works, but needs improvement. Creating, more or less, the same from scratch is IMHO reinventing the wheel, which may not even end being as round as EDE is. Also reusing EDE maybe would "reuse" developers that were/are working on it and hence Emacs would have another contributors for free. Not doing so may mean that some devs will work on EDE and some on project.el, duplicating many things and loosing steam by lone work. Future? Two incomplete packages that do mostly the same, but unusable for users - the most common scenario in open source world (see JDEE, malabar-mode, eclim).