From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 14:29:33 +0300 Message-ID: <561B999D.2060900@yandex.ru> References: <831td9z18h.fsf@gnu.org> <5612E996.7090700@yandex.ru> <83bnc7tavr.fsf@gnu.org> <5618C92A.3040207@yandex.ru> <83a8rrt9ag.fsf@gnu.org> <5618D376.1080700@yandex.ru> <831td3t62e.fsf@gnu.org> <5618E51D.4070800@yandex.ru> <83twpzrp05.fsf@gnu.org> <5618ED93.8000001@yandex.ru> <83lhbbrnn7.fsf@gnu.org> <56191D6B.8040405@yandex.ru> <838u7assvj.fsf@gnu.org> <561A3582.5080806@yandex.ru> <561A3756.1010404@gmx.at> <561A41CA.6060908@yandex.ru> <87io6c5ov5.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444649415 15138 80.91.229.3 (12 Oct 2015 11:30:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:30:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: martin rudalics , Eli Zaretskii , adatgyujto@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Oleh Krehel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 12 13:30:06 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlbIp-0000DD-JC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:30:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54641 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlbIo-0002Fu-PW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 07:30:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40189) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlbIR-0002DQ-RX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 07:29:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlbIO-0007zi-N7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 07:29:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lb0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c04::233]:33692) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlbIO-0007ze-FS; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 07:29:36 -0400 Original-Received: by lbbk10 with SMTP id k10so27568426lbb.0; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 04:29:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=D4OT1hX27fuQzvcST5vUeoMU765BwClX7tKysCgePlY=; b=AN/CrA192LRas+dwx7YK9BTW6qcpgnb/0TFKusZMgO9wzjbKrswctwF6qLNW80oWC4 20ZCDZJcvc6xV+hCMkwAahqKvzkTSqWEyeG8d+nAe+L+Kc3eau7f+kbAV4PcFqSPZqom Gk1Vn6ERpPM+lc+WPkwfSSx9aHF2Z9oUYyqfRAGP6BspmLEdh5VBGTPt7ZWABfbFIPwy 06CkX1T7mZ4DeHeCipk+vvrzS5Wlgy06xu8nlFYU1FjsY+ojI0/ahYesugsF/HW0vffy A40fQ5FPQpo/nag1qT4g723SNz2glM2lC7bJP62Z52kArIBU1O5P1m1/fJSwywOsX6jI YksQ== X-Received: by 10.25.142.203 with SMTP id q194mr7946736lfd.83.1444649375427; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 04:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.190] ([178.252.127.222]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id l82sm2865058lfg.0.2015.10.12.04.29.33 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Oct 2015 04:29:34 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/41.0 In-Reply-To: <87io6c5ov5.fsf@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c04::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191314 Archived-At: On 10/12/2015 02:05 PM, Oleh Krehel wrote: > I like the first style a lot more. The second looks a lot like the ugly > mess of Eclipse. I agree, the Microsoft IDE looks slicker here, but the examples are basically the same, in that they use separate frames for the completion list and documentation, not the same one. Eclipse uses a combined one, last I checked. > The first part is just Emacs' style of doing things: we usually enter > stuff in the minibuffer, so it makes sense for completion to display A lot of users are fine with that, but I think we should do better. Ivy also could use a popup to display completions, in the future. Ideally, I'd prefer something like Sublime/Atom popup at the top of the screen that you get after pressing C-p. > there. The second part is arguably unnecessary: I usually just jump to > definition of symbol rather than look at the docstring inline. You'd think so, but displaying the docstring automatically, like Auto-Complete does (as well as certain IDEs), has been a common request for a while. And now, https://github.com/expez/company-quickhelp is pretty popular. > CEDET is usable, but it can't be as fast and as precise as > GCC. Add to that that the language standard is updated every 5 years or > so with new syntax. GCC has the people to update the parser > accordingly. Doing so for CEDET would be a duplication of effort, and we > don't have the people to do it anyway. Agree. > Could someone explain to me if making GCC the dependency of Emacs would > be a good idea, from technical and freedom point of view? Personally, I > wouldn't care if Emacs executable would get inflated a bit more, if that > meant access to true IDE features, which are only possible with a > precise and fast parser. Having the whole GCC as a dependency might be problematic, but that's not the #1 problem. AFAIK, GCC currently has no "code completion" feature anywhere.