From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcmVhcyBSw7ZobGVy?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New maintainer Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 09:20:05 +0200 Message-ID: <560F81A5.5030203@online.de> References: <560CCEBA.9080607@online.de> <874miapdhs.fsf@openmailbox.org> <8737xuuw2y.fsf@rabkins.net> <87lhbmkrle.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443856838 29812 80.91.229.3 (3 Oct 2015 07:20:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 07:20:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: John Wiegley , Eli Zaretskii , Richard Stallman To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 03 09:20:23 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiH7H-0004Rd-2F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 09:20:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37278 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiH7G-0003iQ-BH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 03:20:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35467) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiH7C-0003i5-81 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 03:20:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiH7B-0003oE-Ar for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 03:20:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.24]:55712) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiH75-0003nK-Kg; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 03:20:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.31] ([77.12.8.131]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MSao8-1a7gHV2JXg-00RcJN; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 09:20:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:hhPllNwqJ9Qi2G0rvXUs8GHtzukf67yAHhcMGahKEKVszXG8tyV kVAus+tpBliLUtcm6nPJAIN22aSEhXTUyr8tmnYjvjbROtzxk8tfE+eKGCZvPfCSfgQbStO 2viy2Z9sNlhvm9TJo1hVPwLuVvXJfySNVnm89DNLNluCMRG9zQgW1oPPUsUmCFwYmpW95Tm +ht0b1ZdIHhqd++/TcT3Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:JnD9kbdxkxU=:r3eCJs3nRjmeNWIgQ0X/h4 fqebhO7GwKYIXNwmNOU34PDVcJCDkJWIFJ05k15Zkx6RCtxWjotvuVJ5o1F2kE3gSw17JGV57 jKjBbyp1fGGYb8gt+eO2Q2q9tODBxukf4jVBwYKMVmHVJbztKdq7t736VsRMA8XJzhwa2pfFH jbZD46EzilUVOg2GtDQpjUWjNu2hBH5NS762+I61uSaQuyXXlQyQtKvCFMfvbACTR0g6HgJzM etooW3khs3LuoI327vEE2534jco770vIYqzDajnX9djR/kWmFdGA0NDsMBBxSRTDLjFSnp7/7 4xH4yt9Ya71XrPnjcgg4b1ZWb1wkPGICXYKwNtjLxA2GXqx6Kl/wHMGByU9BO6uyWIpkHULdu 2wwLRkiIqSO05MkkIgQYpRYeRl+/n/F/7aYjw0XL+rjDPF2xmsSo905XjP4DY81pxuLJ64w6m mvD3jq50GXjYTBK7S7IY4yjgfLZeYFFroqjsXh9sUeYunRBUSACTCaZjVOc12BWd3f6q9YNbz AVhwKSTZXvScucVMIze0MDSwUstHueBmRLbiGIs4reye3ZBU4jfe/5RRUuDUS+OqkI9QsYrf6 juGzy01Z7zj2aLnWWgpBPQTT3fUK1QCzq8Jz3Vwrca5CliGMrwnA6qxj/uQifRIZPL/ayJJ0Y IeJQU8yZNJWwC9t9mk5D3Sn2kzFwbG4kPXU4qmkPttPeFl13ZXIXJPeB86ZlFVq8Ldw7RRKek eD7Cn2B/EcBRppMa X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.17.24 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190771 Archived-At: Am 03.10.2015 um 03:37 schrieb Richard Stallman: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > My OS X story for Emacs is mostly this: Give Mitsuharu Yamamoto > > whatever help he needs. His "Mac port" variant of Emacs is all I > > could ask for in terms of OS X support right now. I'd like to see > > it modernized under Cocoa, if at all possible, or promoted to a > > build flavor in the master branch. > > That would go against the goals of the GNU Project, both practically > and in principle. It would be a very strong commitment to a system > that exemplifies the injustice we aim to get rid of. It would be > utterly backwards. > > > I'm not talking about upheaval here, just equal footing, > > It would be wrong and harmful to give MacOS an "equal footing". > Our goal is to replace nonfree systems (and nonfree software in > general), not to enhance them. > > We measure improvement of GNU Emacs in terms of what it can do as part > of the GNU system. What happens on MacOS or Windows does not count. > > See the section "Platforms to Support", in Information for Maintainers > of GNU Software. > > We do include support for MacOS and Windows, to the extent people > develop such support and it isn't a problem to include; but we reject > any obligation to support them. Making that an obligation would > legitimize those systems -- and go against our goal, which is to beat > them -- and divert effort to something that doesn't count. > > If the Emacs maintainers rejected features that work only on GNU-like > systems, saying "You must add support for Windows and MacOS before we > can install this," that would pressure our contributors to use > proprietary systems (it is unethical even to suggest people use > them!). That requirement would hold back contribution from developers > that don't use them. It would thus impede the improvement of GNU > Emacs (which means, making it function better in GNU). > > Thus, it is unacceptable to require Windows or MacOS support before > installing contributions. A contribution only HAS to work on GNU (but > it should be conditionalized so it does not break Emacs on the other > platforms it doesn't support), but we should try to keep it working on > *BSD since that is usually easy. As for Windows and MacOS support, we > can integrate that if and when someone provides it. > > There is nothing wrong with an Emacs maintainer's writing code to > support for Windows or MacOS. However, if the maintainers have > limited time for Emacs, spending much time supporting secondary > platforms could leave the Emacs maintainers' main job starved for > time. That would be a practical problem, if it happens. Perhaps > it won't happen. > Hi Richard, +1 Thanks for clarification. Any response from Eli WRT acting as co-maintainer? Would be great to see both in office ASAP. Cheers, Andreas