From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Should we just start dumping cl-lib? Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:19:45 -0700 Message-ID: <560F1F21.7080503@dancol.org> References: <560E0DA7.6080305@dancol.org> <87twq9ebmh.fsf@udel.edu> <83y4fl5qqi.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5dXXMhpE9UnsUCgO8Ih2nXO88CeWEC83u" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443831613 11713 80.91.229.3 (3 Oct 2015 00:20:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 00:20:13 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 03 02:20:02 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiAYS-00023Z-3y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 02:20:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36112 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiAYR-0007q2-1M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2015 20:19:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42971) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiAYN-0007pd-Ea for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2015 20:19:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiAYJ-0006CC-HF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2015 20:19:55 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:39907) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiAYJ-0006C5-76 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2015 20:19:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject; bh=QA63m1m8woIrZcHbDj5PNOxqvAppcYxwXtTu/LjGZ/o=; b=Y97tI1CvcVQBNmo1OBzvvTUpmdPkwfBjaVlbPeJMufRF+wsxBby13gYd+g2IfPXdn/TVwTJwWq9CuRTGupRo0iXR+smwB1NFAdzSApfcMNfjP8cC8X1IdqdHrn1AmXtKNpkvTzJudFpv+9JvudcZUB0uH5XBa9dQPkWZIA05DZxIxX1tMjAaUbmdXvRCghvMrw8zx6cVe0S+Lcv5wglYSNivoUl8dciyc1FaTrr/a9Y6SnbOoNy7667YHhJpw+cHHeYyi1/7Rsn41qCeM3q0dJbsFX2HB1l6Rs3yLT7PMwcTpiqw97nMLYFjDcuZaenQYk6A9zWSNyzfIhT0el9Wqw==; Original-Received: from c-24-16-208-239.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([24.16.208.239] helo=[192.168.1.175]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiAYI-0001Wf-3V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2015 17:19:50 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190753 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --5dXXMhpE9UnsUCgO8Ih2nXO88CeWEC83u Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10/02/2015 09:07 AM, John Wiegley wrote: >>>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: >=20 >> Please always accompany such suggestions with rationale. Adding to the= core >> just because "why not?" is IMO not a good methodology. Some people sti= ll >> care about the memory footprint of programs, so we don't want to bloat= that >> unless there are good reasons. Such reasons can only be discussed on a= case >> by case basis. >=20 > Although personally I wouldn't mind seeing cl-lib in core, for the bene= fit of > Emacs I have to agree with Eli. It's not something we should do just be= cause > it sounds like a good idea, but because not doing it would cost us some= thing. > Shaving a few milliseconds from startup is not enough of a gain to be w= orth > bloating core. What's the cost of increasing the size of the dumped image? We don't take COW faults on most of the pages, so we can discard them at will. Because the OS can discard clean pages without writing them to the pagefile and reconstitute them at will, transferring code from Emacs private allocations to the dumped Emacs image _decreases_ memory footprint. That we also shave a few milliseconds off startup is another benefit. If not cl-lib, then what? What is the actual bar? --5dXXMhpE9UnsUCgO8Ih2nXO88CeWEC83u Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWDx8hAAoJEN4WImmbpWBlJhYP/iM4fpHwf2DtHbrNN6LZf6hm sTlTv/7i6mW6W5ttgs6WubbKDyVK9BigDpZX7hcWA9CEv1j874YVs1l+hsFn5nCQ IoAW8VrctpxEHVcdLWVu1Tmz651brwmK3Hwx7NibMcW9wopkTcRVq8zuHdhz2hVG ecAUTs/B/gh/USxv8ChEavT+NmadHr1NqGRSIevqGXOXskpxfHeuzEoNiVj/Bw66 PzF3yuJIUW1mSpGLiRhAi8STBMybixLhkCyQyQ8dUQax8cYYa9fdi7w9hJYUu3qE lHxedj1dKMZMMs1DnmYxeSkqVGXzWJamFE8kKugq3vVsTqmMfAM7t5fyVB19e3BY YplnrPr7UvnP/iIxmIhvYMQrGHkFLEhe2a5Y9uYXg4sTzHyuzXQQU1BnCjrZrKPx h9MLewWxgmzy+nG7/Mr8+656vmr/w4SQ6QEzIwaZ+x8FLtn8hyDwKmh93N9Hu+YG pSoNeIRPcGtuFUe5r7Z6yfENbjQqGSHNqNq/1imcdr0VW1qWIcmj6H4aG62Sjava Q+C3lcRChJhsdI1Cin9TDQIyajyg/7yXliC8IETem2ulWJQ2jsgmsHMfomPozf9Z L6unxkzK/BvmsMITaDpFmlQd6PXEKLJVbFT+ANvhUFP+htvw/YFBp5doUtt1eHqu qTyyoNFSNIqp6DKscZ/b =42PV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5dXXMhpE9UnsUCgO8Ih2nXO88CeWEC83u--