From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Tried to bind Ctrl-c and to kill-ring-save (i.e. copy) and it *sometimes* doesn't work with mouse!?!? Very confusing Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 10:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55f997e0-831c-45b3-923c-a5143b7507a3@default> References: <79da6550-ceff-42d4-aaf9-991954847058@googlegroups.com> <87li4heetm.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1375636593 29697 80.91.229.3 (4 Aug 2013 17:16:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:16:33 +0000 (UTC) To: Emanuel Berg , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 04 19:16:31 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V61ux-00066D-95 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:16:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42544 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V61uw-0004Gp-Gc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:16:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37875) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V61ud-0004FY-KN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:16:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V61uU-0003x3-TO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:16:11 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:51690) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V61uU-0003wo-N1 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:16:02 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r74HFxgM030966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:16:01 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r74HFu7Z004534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:15:58 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r74HFuUw024454; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 17:15:56 GMT In-Reply-To: <87li4heetm.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:92701 Archived-At: > Also, it is best to drop mouse use entirely, for the same (and > other) reasons. > > If you want to highlight a region, you can use M-h (repeatedly, if > needed), or you can use C-SPC to set the mark, and then move the > cursor with, for example, C-n/p. There you go again. That's silly (and irrelevant to the OP question). It is not "best" to *not* use the mouse to select text, just as it is not "best" to *use* the mouse to select text. For some selection use cases, nothing beats the Emacs mouse (which is not your grandmother's mouse, BTW). For other use cases, keyboard selection can be better. The examples you gave (`M-h' and `C-SPC' + `C-n'...) are not great arguments for preferring the keyboard to select arbitrary text or even an arbitrary sexp or a set of contiguous lines. A better example for your argument might be `C-M-@', but that still depends on the cursor already being where you want to start the selection, which is often the case but not always so. When it is not, you need to first move it there. Still, one can reasonably compare (a) repeating `C-M-@' to select sibling sexps, forward (there is no backward in this case), to (b) double-clicking the first sexp to select and then clicking `mouse-3' at the start of a sibling sexp to include (whether the last one in the series or not and, if not, whether forward or backward - you can extend the selection by sexps in either direction). The real point, however, is that it is not necessarily the "best" idea to advise newbies to adopt your particular preferences as the "best" way to use Emacs. It is one thing to say "I prefer XYZ" or "I do it this way". It is another thing to preach your way as The One True Way. All of Emacs might be The One True Way ;-). But in itself Emacs is many different ways. And that's the point of Emacs. It is extensible and customizable, and its very definition and features, even out-of-the-box, are themselves the result of extension and customization by many different people with different preferences, different ways of working and playing, and different purposes. Above all editors and programming tools, Emacs offers multiple ways to skin a cat. There is no "best" way for everyone and all contexts, and there is no practical limit to what you can do or how you can interact with Emacs. That is the first lesson that Emacs itself teaches.