From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ffb6ce 5/5: Quoting fixes in lisp/international and lisp/leim Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 07:56:05 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <55E85F85.1060701@cs.ucla.edu> References: <55E496DC.1030608@cs.ucla.edu> <877foas9jh.fsf@gmail.com> <20150901190014.GB1997@acm.fritz.box> <20150902100252.GC2544@acm.fritz.box> <55E724AA.30301@cs.ucla.edu> <20150902172345.GF2544@acm.fritz.box> <55E7749D.1030801@cs.ucla.edu> <20150903122209.GA2336@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1441292394 12295 80.91.229.3 (3 Sep 2015 14:59:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:59:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 03 16:59:45 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZXVzK-00046U-4b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 16:59:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48881 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZXVzJ-0002zM-Kk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 10:59:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44835) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZXVvx-0004zz-1Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 10:56:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZXVvt-0002a8-1q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 10:56:12 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:37688) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZXVvs-0002Zn-Kq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Sep 2015 10:56:08 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F48160FD5; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 07:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id At1CVEOvnU_D; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 07:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90DCD160FD3; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 07:56:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id wHMfhUc2Q--q; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 07:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 72AC0160843; Thu, 3 Sep 2015 07:56:05 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 In-Reply-To: <20150903122209.GA2336@acm.fritz.box> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:189507 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie wrote: > the original scenario had nothing to do with > `text-quoting-style'. There seemed little point to having two variables to control text quoting= =20 behavior, one for initial inference of display quoting and one for transl= ation=20 of help strings and diagnostics. So I used the same variable for all thr= ee. > You've cut so much context To help move things forward, here's a complete copy of the message I repl= ied to,=20 along with a copy of my reply inserted at the appropriate spot, so that y= ou can=20 see the complete context. > Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> Hello, Paul. >> >> On Wed, Sep 02, 2015 at 09:32:42AM -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: >>> Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>> Using my standard font, lat1-16, the curly quotes use the same glyp= hs as >>>> ` and ', hence are visibly indistinguishable from them. >> >>> That's no longer true as of yesterday's master commit >>> 1a3518e7c361a9ceaa017c1334a83d14e0651a4e. >> >> I'm afraid it is still true. After doing a C-h f c-mode, apparent >> quotes were in the buffer. Checking them with C-u C-x =3D, they were >> indeed curly quotes, but were displayed the same as ASCII quotes. > After fooling around with it on my Linux console, I came up with a scen= ario that had the behavior you describe. In this scenario I set the LC_A= LL environment variable to en_US.UTF-8 even though the Linux console coul= d display only a few non-ASCII characters (so in some sense this is a mis= configuration). And I put (setq text-quoting-style 'grave) into my ~/.em= acs file, indicating that I wanted traditional ASCII quoting. Emacs didn= 't look at the text-quoting-style setting when configuring the display ta= ble at startup, which seems wrong, so I patched master to fix that. Plea= se do a git pull and give it a try. If it still doesn't work for you, pl= ease send the output of the shell command =E2=80=98locale=E2=80=99 just b= efore invoking Emacs, and the output of the command =E2=80=98echo $TERM=E2= =80=99, and a copy of the Lisp code that sets text-quoting-style in your = ~/.emacs file. Thanks. >>> On a terminal that cannot display curved quotes, ... >> >> Currently, my terminal is not such a one. It _can_ display curly >> quotes, but only identically to ASCII quotes. `char-displayable-p' >> returns 'unicode for them. >> >> The issue is not so much whether a terminal can display curly quotes, >> rather it's whether a user wants them to be used or not. >> >>> .... Emacs master now uses different glyphs for the quotes=E2=80=99 A= SCII >>> replacements, because the replacements are shadowed. The shadowed >>> glyphs are easily distinguishable on my Linux console. Users >>> shouldn=E2=80=99t need to configure Emacs specially, or their Linux c= onsole >>> specially, to get this behavior. So this objection no longer applies= . >>