From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:21:13 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <55D50159.2030104@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <55D1043C.3030909@yandex.ru> <55D15899.2070105@cs.ucla.edu> <55D1C9CE.2060407@yandex.ru> <55D20EDF.5070906@cs.ucla.edu> <55D223CA.4080109@yandex.ru> <55D22A1F.8040508@cs.ucla.edu> <55D22CF4.9030608@yandex.ru> <55D2747D.10809@cs.ucla.edu> <55D317A9.6000805@yandex.ru> <55D42210.9070703@cs.ucla.edu> <55D48503.3020406@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1440022901 23707 80.91.229.3 (19 Aug 2015 22:21:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:21:41 +0000 (UTC) To: Dmitry Gutov , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 20 00:21:30 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZSBjc-00038J-Pa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:21:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47968 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZSBjb-0004ZO-K7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:21:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34034) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZSBjU-0004YA-Pc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:21:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZSBjP-0002uO-Pz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:21:20 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:41576) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZSBjP-0002uE-GK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:21:15 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D212160D9E; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id J3lXUaXTxbZy; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C68160D9F; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 6GLFpLJ4nrRm; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7344E160D9E; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 In-Reply-To: <55D48503.3020406@yandex.ru> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188967 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov wrote: > if you're ... still > keeping curlies in Elisp source code, then, from where I'm standing, th= e new > format sequence is not exactly justified. %q does help at the C level. I suppose we could remove %q's documentatio= n, and=20 not export it to Lisp. But perhaps it'd be better to leave things alone = and see=20 what people actually use. Developers who prefer ASCII-only formats and w= ho=20 don't mind their code not working in Emacs 24.5-and-earlier can do this: (format "Environment variable name %qs contains %qs" var "=3D") Developers who prefer more-intuitive formats, or who want their code to w= ork=20 reasonably well in Emacs 24.5-and-earlier, can do this: (format "Environment variable name =E2=80=98%s=E2=80=99 contains =E2=80= =98=3D=E2=80=99" var) Both approaches work on Emacs master now. As the main objection to curve= d=20 quotes appears to be the hassle of typing them in some environments, if a= =20 developer doesn't mind that hassle then it should be OK to use them. >> we would have something like: >> >> (message "Press % or % for help, % to quit") > > That looks quite nice to me. Do you like trigraphs too?!? (Sorry, couldn't resist. :-) Whatever nic= eness=20 it has is clearly trumped by the niceness of using quotation marks to rep= resent=20 quotation marks, and by the better compatibility of quotation marks when = running=20 in older Emacs versions. > when discussing a Lisp solution, you voted in favor of simple > translation logic, one that didn't even check for pairings. > substitute-command-keys could do the same. I suppose it could, yes. I'll look into that.