From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#10868: 24.0.93; `comment-style' needs to be explained Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 09:34:17 -0800 Message-ID: <55AE7A9B21944336BD8E9A0B097C62CB@us.oracle.com> References: <7AF76478FD534B8B9A07E9FB79060E64@us.oracle.com><5b4nuizqj9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org><3251750A293C4D74AAB64FD8672192CE@us.oracle.com><87ehtlykdr.fsf@gmx.li> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1330018485 14939 80.91.229.3 (23 Feb 2012 17:34:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:34:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 10868@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Glenn Morris'" , "'Lawrence Mitchell'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 23 18:34:44 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1S0cZ1-00018F-Ob for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:34:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33578 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S0cZ1-0005ed-7K for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:34:43 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:53390) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S0cYx-0005d9-WD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:34:41 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S0cYs-0000iX-0Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:34:39 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:49335) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1S0cYr-0000iF-S1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:34:33 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S0cbG-0000tl-AN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:37:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10868 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo Original-Received: via spool by 10868-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10868.13300186203445 (code B ref 10868); Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:37:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 10868) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2012 17:37:00 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52958 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S0cbC-0000tV-Pj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:36:59 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:46908) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1S0cbA-0000tI-KI for 10868@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:36:57 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q1NHYK58011544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:34:21 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q1NHYJ5b016001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:34:19 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q1NHYITN024274; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:34:18 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 09:34:18 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AczyTxZ0uSAh8sFASIWGWEhzqFV2bAAAD3QQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A020207.4F46789D.00F0,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:57145 Archived-At: > > The docstring of comment-style refers the user to comment-styles for > > details on what the values mean. However, this is not available > > until after newcomment.el is loaded. So autoload comment-styles > > to avoid this problem. > > Then this is an instance of a general problem. See eg > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=1768 > for the same thing. > > IMO there should be a general solution rather than papering over every > instance that occurs with more pre/autoloading. Maybe, maybe not. No one has suggested "papering over *every instance* that occurs with more pre/autoloading". Quite the contrary. Stefan gave some specific guidelines (reasons) why preloading makes sense in this _particular_ case. But if what you say is true and is agreed upon, we can discuss the general problem & solution separately - in emacs-devel, for example. Wrt _this_ bug report: let us not let the perfect become the enemy of the good. Let's not wait for some expected or hoped-for general solution before fixing this particular bug. It's hard enough to get approval that a particular option's doc string be preloaded. Let's not throw abstract obstacles in the path, once that need has been recognized in a particular case. > PS Someone might want to rename this report to reflect the real issue. Please, no. Please do not try to detour this bug fix. Instead, file a separate bug report for the general case that you suppose. Or better yet, bring up the question for discussion at emacs-devel.