From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:36:19 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <558436F3.8040307@cs.ucla.edu> References: <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru> <87r3p9fxm2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k2v0fiji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20150619090225.GA2743@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1434728232 30976 80.91.229.3 (19 Jun 2015 15:37:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 15:37:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie , "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 19 17:37:04 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5yLZ-0000wO-6X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:36:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58695 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5yLT-0007iw-Eo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:36:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43731) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5yLD-0007hh-M0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:36:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5yL7-0001vY-Hm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:36:27 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:40345) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5yL7-0001vR-B7; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:36:21 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DEE16081B; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id HXn11zDcNB_J; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40FB16080F; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:36:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id PrwXpiuYplRo; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8EEDA1607F2; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:36:19 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 In-Reply-To: <20150619090225.GA2743@acm.fritz.box> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187323 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Any benefits there may be are not _practical_ ones. Sure they are. They make documentation strings easier to read, for people who are used to today's typical displays. And there are other practical benefits, e.g., being able to cut and paste from help buffers that use modern styles. > In a true experiment, comment and objections would be > actively encouraged at an early stage. I don't think this has happened > wrt these curly quote changes. You're quite mistaken. The doc string fixes were proposed on 20 April in Bug#20385. Comments were solicited and the fixes were improved over a period of several weeks, before the patch was installed on May 28. In contrast, you installed commit 52c3946c872c8bd96508f74cdda5cbb90c664306, an equally large change to user behavior, and without first proposing it so that we could comment on it (surely you knew it would be controversial) and catch the obvious errors with it (even assuming we agreed with the idea). This was another mistake, one that still needs some work. I have obligations in the next few hours that prevent me from thinking about your long recent message on the topic, but I'll return to it as soon as I can.