From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>, "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs.
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 08:36:19 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <558436F3.8040307@cs.ucla.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150619090225.GA2743@acm.fritz.box>
Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Any benefits there may be are not _practical_ ones.
Sure they are. They make documentation strings easier to read, for people who
are used to today's typical displays. And there are other practical benefits,
e.g., being able to cut and paste from help buffers that use modern styles.
> In a true experiment, comment and objections would be
> actively encouraged at an early stage. I don't think this has happened
> wrt these curly quote changes.
You're quite mistaken. The doc string fixes were proposed on 20 April in
Bug#20385. Comments were solicited and the fixes were improved over a period of
several weeks, before the patch was installed on May 28.
In contrast, you installed commit 52c3946c872c8bd96508f74cdda5cbb90c664306, an
equally large change to user behavior, and without first proposing it so that we
could comment on it (surely you knew it would be controversial) and catch the
obvious errors with it (even assuming we agreed with the idea). This was
another mistake, one that still needs some work.
I have obligations in the next few hours that prevent me from thinking about
your long recent message on the topic, but I'll return to it as soon as I can.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-06-19 15:36 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 296+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-06-15 14:22 Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-15 14:46 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-15 15:34 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-15 20:00 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-15 20:16 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-06-15 21:04 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-16 6:34 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-16 12:03 ` Robert Pluim
2015-06-16 12:35 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-16 13:10 ` Yuri Khan
2015-06-16 12:58 ` Andy Moreton
2015-06-16 23:53 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-22 13:24 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-22 15:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-15 15:14 ` raman
2015-06-15 15:23 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-15 15:30 ` Kaushal
2015-06-15 15:31 ` Kaushal
2015-06-15 16:33 ` Stephan Mueller
2015-06-15 15:38 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-15 18:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-15 18:42 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-06-15 16:11 ` Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-15 17:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-15 17:44 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-15 19:38 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-15 16:43 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-15 17:43 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-16 0:50 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-16 22:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-17 6:59 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-16 23:56 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-15 19:38 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-15 20:57 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-16 15:55 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-16 22:43 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-06-17 7:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-17 1:54 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-17 6:21 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-17 6:36 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-17 8:05 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-18 4:07 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-17 13:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-17 18:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-18 4:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-18 7:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-19 2:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-19 7:41 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-19 11:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-19 14:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-19 16:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-19 20:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-28 19:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 23:31 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-26 15:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-26 19:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-26 22:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-26 23:59 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-27 2:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-28 1:10 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 5:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 10:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 13:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 14:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 15:32 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-06-30 15:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 15:54 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 17:54 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 19:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 22:15 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 17:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-30 20:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-30 14:37 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 15:23 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-07-01 13:28 ` Andy Moreton
2015-07-01 16:56 ` Paul Eggert
2015-07-01 18:06 ` Andy Moreton
2015-06-27 12:22 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-27 14:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-28 9:52 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-28 15:35 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-29 9:13 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-29 14:50 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-29 21:52 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-30 1:51 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-30 16:53 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-28 17:52 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-28 19:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 20:28 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-28 20:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-28 23:05 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-29 5:59 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-29 14:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-29 21:53 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-29 22:08 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-28 19:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-28 19:54 ` chad
2015-06-28 21:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-28 21:37 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-29 21:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-18 4:29 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18 7:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-18 12:02 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-19 4:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-19 9:02 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-19 15:36 ` Paul Eggert [this message]
2015-06-23 22:22 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-23 22:47 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-24 17:20 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-25 22:24 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-26 13:57 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 1:44 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-22 8:42 ` Elias Mårtenson
2015-06-23 16:01 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-22 13:57 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 15:33 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 12:38 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 17:06 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 18:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-24 18:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-22 15:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-22 18:32 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-22 18:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 3:16 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 11:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 13:02 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 13:22 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-23 18:22 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 19:29 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-23 19:53 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 14:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 18:39 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 19:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 19:12 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 22:22 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 15:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 18:17 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 18:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 19:05 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 19:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 19:51 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 20:29 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-23 20:42 ` Matthew Carter
[not found] ` <E1Z7UpW-0007r3-2O@fencepost.gnu.org>
2015-06-23 20:55 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-29 9:13 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 13:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-23 14:31 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-23 22:22 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 22:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-24 14:55 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-24 15:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-25 7:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-25 15:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-25 22:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-26 1:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-26 13:57 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-26 19:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-27 12:20 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-27 15:36 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-28 9:51 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-26 13:58 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 15:36 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 15:42 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-24 15:13 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-24 15:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-24 18:55 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-24 19:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-06-25 1:28 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 12:41 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 18:50 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-23 14:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 19:57 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-24 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-17 14:41 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-17 14:58 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-06-17 16:03 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-17 18:30 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-17 18:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-17 19:28 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 4:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-18 4:52 ` ASCII-folded search [was: Re: Upcoming loss of usability ...] Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18 5:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 7:48 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18 8:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 8:16 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-18 8:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 9:50 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-18 10:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-22 20:49 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-22 21:02 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-22 21:03 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-22 22:24 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-22 23:28 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-23 22:49 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-24 8:03 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-24 14:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-24 17:41 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-24 18:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-06-24 21:44 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-24 21:57 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-24 21:59 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-24 22:22 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-25 1:56 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-25 17:49 ` Kaushal
2015-06-25 22:27 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-26 9:32 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 12:13 ` Kaushal
2015-06-26 15:19 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 17:20 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 18:42 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 18:42 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 19:08 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 20:34 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-26 21:56 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-26 22:54 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-27 8:07 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-27 8:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-26 17:14 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-27 22:48 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-26 15:11 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-23 16:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 17:20 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-23 17:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 16:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 17:19 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-23 17:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 5:27 ` Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-18 5:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 7:08 ` Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-18 7:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 16:44 ` Ulrich Mueller
2015-06-18 17:23 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 17:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 18:13 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 18:26 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-06-18 20:18 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 21:27 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-18 18:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-18 20:16 ` Steinar Bang
2015-06-19 4:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-18 4:49 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-06-17 16:18 ` Robert Pluim
2015-06-18 12:00 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-18 20:11 ` Robert Pluim
2015-06-18 7:05 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-18 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-19 9:03 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-20 6:02 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-20 17:37 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-20 19:43 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-21 14:16 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-21 19:50 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-22 13:55 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 15:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 12:37 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 13:08 ` Nikolai Weibull
2015-06-23 15:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-23 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-24 2:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-24 14:56 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-24 15:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-24 19:09 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-25 7:49 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-25 14:27 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-24 9:29 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-06-24 14:54 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-23 16:25 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-23 17:53 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-06-23 22:54 ` Paul Eggert
2015-06-23 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-22 22:22 ` Juri Linkov
2015-06-15 16:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-17 7:16 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-06-17 8:15 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-17 8:40 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-06-17 9:02 ` Yuri Khan
2015-06-17 11:20 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-06-17 12:27 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-19 21:35 ` Paul Nathan
[not found] <<20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box>
[not found] ` <<87ioamz8if.fsf@petton.fr>
[not found] ` <<32013464-2300-46c6-ba46-4a3c36bfee5d@default>
[not found] ` <<87twu62nnt.fsf@mbork.pl>
[not found] ` <<87oakdfwim.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
[not found] ` <<83wpz1lh7c.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-K0QVtMLG3v+EmmjXDCW6DWwJiSsV0giHX9rJ9EFDHL7Q@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83oakdl7yj.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-LLRyb_ruWMTQMjZCSFRJD7d-sLJD7sfj41nnhWhghCBw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83ioall3x5.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-JYmKsadzH0jy4fLK_eeC9V6wuX7UReKJ5m1FX9ZMzkrw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-JSZfnjBo8R7hKQswoqOfo024D0Dc7BmTP_4at9TWv-TA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87h9pzxtyi.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-JO+wLX+EyHF7nv5Hii8ahYUk0YHMTrTOXAsuwFGoaAoA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87k2uudoqr.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-LyfyZU3KfM1mvP5tjmeH=uQQM3B2+uDabv3mQT3Dm9JQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87616c94g4.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-KR+fcPzxaw7KgQ9pz38CeC8mRMWSZnY3_A2QRWGp8RCQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87h9pw6922.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-KoyQbteW_i-TW48azUA-phoUzt4of9be_tSoiKd+7Cww@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<CAFyQvY1iCMaF_EGOALyE-Gzy+nEy7r8O-pJ1SnWB=TvDuYk8nw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<87a8vn75r7.fsf@mail.linkov.net>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-+CO3sSaz71qMsHJuET1J6Yd1tiosOKM+dC7VU=fCPQbQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<CAFyQvY2SZgZ+eJqHCi3Fgi1+fCkv5_m44=-rcVPi0aRwf3WuQg@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<0f72b0bd-0170-414c-b926-0b836a973d67@default>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-+4C3X1w+vvBDEJ+B07Ta33=z6b3RZ61RW1ex9C4uV5Ww@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<9b42a5bc-48e3-4111-b37d-280867903527@default>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-+wvuO7YYEWvj+G7ZkrKA-hE9n=QaqZvvpzyJCyDC_KFw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<12de813f-cffa-4231-95a4-5b9ee2709123@default>
[not found] ` <<CAAdUY-KSjx=H8Mscii7Q6FNBO2UA4_RQw=9GjSPUYNrkKhSSgQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<a6bb8f58-1e27-47cc-8f77-766b8e8ff9b4@default>
[not found] ` <<834mltd0qk.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-06-27 15:34 ` ASCII-folded search [was: Re: Upcoming loss of usability ...] Drew Adams
2015-06-27 16:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-27 16:46 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-06-27 18:02 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<87y4jkhqh5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
[not found] ` <<E1Z4aDD-0005QL-Iq@fencepost.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<E1Z4tDG-0003St-DZ@fencepost.gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<jwv8ubifq2g.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru>
[not found] ` <<jwvbngdbq6r.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<558D6A3D.1070706@yandex.ru>
[not found] ` <<jwv381etgqc.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<877fqnzpno.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<5590493C.8000007@yandex.ru>
[not found] ` <<87381bzife.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<75f2fe0f-f15e-4af8-b9ae-0ddc9231c9ab@default>
[not found] ` <<83a8vi60ke.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-06-29 14:57 ` Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs Drew Adams
2015-06-29 15:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-29 16:14 ` Drew Adams
2015-06-29 16:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-29 21:52 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-30 2:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-30 16:53 ` Richard Stallman
2015-06-30 17:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-06-30 22:20 ` Paul Eggert
2015-07-01 16:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-07-01 19:33 ` Paul Eggert
2015-07-01 19:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<fc4de8bc-c7a6-4471-85cc-eaa9fcb34f7f@default>
[not found] ` <<83vbe64jyt.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<800419d5-94b3-4325-a29f-e42678049f96@default>
[not found] ` <<83mvzi4h12.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-06-29 16:37 ` Drew Adams
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