New Citation syntax on the master branch?

New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

New citation syntax, is it in the trunk yet?.

If "No", under what conditions will it land in the trunk.

I am thinking of stashing away my ox-jabref.el in to GNU ELPA. If the
citation syntax is only an EXPERIMENTAL feature with no certainty
about it's mainstream availability or maturity, then my plans for
ox-jabref.el is a non-starter.

Just checking...

Re: New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:

> New citation syntax, is it in the trunk yet?.

No, it isn't.

> If "No", under what conditions will it land in the trunk.

At the moment it is a minimal syntax, i.e., it doesn't support
sub-types.

It will land in the trunk once a library using it for Org core is
implemented. I put it in a separate branch so that such a library can be
built, discussed and tested.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Sunday 10 May 2015 12:44 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

> It will land in the trunk once a library using it for Org core is
> implemented. I put it in a separate branch so that such a library can be
> built, discussed and tested.

1. Do you, as a maintainer, have any specific plans for this library?

2. What conditions should such a library satisfy in order that it is
   considered a candidate.

3. Are there any contenders for this library at this moment. For
   example, is ox-jabref.el a contender for this library. If "No", on
   what counts it fails to get through the gate.

Re: New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday 10 May 2015 12:44 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
>
>> It will land in the trunk once a library using it for Org core is
>> implemented. I put it in a separate branch so that such a library can be
>> built, discussed and tested.
>
> 1. Do you, as a maintainer, have any specific plans for this library?

I'm not a maintainer. Anyway, I have no specific plan besides installing
it in core once involved parts (both developers and users in the ML)
agree on its quality and usefulness.

> 2. What conditions should such a library satisfy in order that it is
>    considered a candidate.

I don't use a reference manager myself. However, we are lucky enough to
count on users of such things on the ML. Their opinion matters.
A candidate should be useful enough to make at least a part of them
willing to use it instead of their current set-up.

> 3. Are there any contenders for this library at this moment.

There was a discussion about it a couple of months ago. IIRC, there is
a library being developed there.

> For example, is ox-jabref.el a contender for this library. If "No", on
> what counts it fails to get through the gate.

There can be more than one library: one for Jabref, one for Zotero, one
for BibTex... Different users have different needs. The question is:
which one would be included in Org core?

Ideally, org-citation (oc.el for short) could implement the UI, and
libraries talking to reference managers (e.g oc-jabref, oc-zotero,
oc-bibtex...) could be used as back-ends feeding "oc.el". In this
situation, we could include more than one back-end in core.

From an external POV, I think "org-ref.el" pretty much defines what
features could be included in "oc.el" (though, some of them would be
back-end specific).


Regards,

Re: New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Wednesday 13 May 2015 04:32 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Sunday 10 May 2015 12:44 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
>>
>>> It will land in the trunk once a library using it for Org core is
>>> implemented. I put it in a separate branch so that such a library can be
>>> built, discussed and tested.
>>
>> 1. Do you, as a maintainer, have any specific plans for this library?

1. "New citation syntax" is concerned with ORG SYNTAX

2. oc.el is concerned with EDITING org files.

3. ox-jabref.el (and others) is concerned with DOCUMENT CREATION.

It seems like your plan is to put 1, 2 & 3 ALL TOGETHER in
trunk. i.e., ALL or NONE.

How about making (1) a configurable option -- disabled by default --
and moving it to trunk?  I believe the answer depends MORE on how
"stable" you think the new citation syntax is (in so far as it is
implemented) and LESS on whether the whole ecosystem is in place.

Just checking one last time, before I shut up ...

Re: New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:

> 1. "New citation syntax" is concerned with ORG SYNTAX
>
> 2. oc.el is concerned with EDITING org files.
>
> 3. ox-jabref.el (and others) is concerned with DOCUMENT CREATION.

True.

> It seems like your plan is to put 1, 2 & 3 ALL TOGETHER in
> trunk. i.e., ALL or NONE.

Correct. Org syntax is expected to be supported out of the box.

> How about making (1) a configurable option -- disabled by default --
> and moving it to trunk?

I don't want syntax to be configurable.

> I believe the answer depends MORE on how "stable" you think the new
> citation syntax is (in so far as it is implemented) and LESS on
> whether the whole ecosystem is in place.

We can add oc-jabref (not ox-jabref, which is reserved for export
back-ends) in a branch and have some users test it. This is the only way
to know if the syntax is sufficient.

WDYT?


Regards,

Re: New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Vaidheeswaran C]

On Sunday 17 May 2015 01:48 PM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

>> How about making (1) a configurable option -- disabled by default --
>> > and moving it to trunk?
> I don't want syntax to be configurable.

Ok.

>> > I believe the answer depends MORE on how "stable" you think the new
>> > citation syntax is (in so far as it is implemented) and LESS on
>> > whether the whole ecosystem is in place.

> We can add oc-jabref (not ox-jabref, which is reserved for export
> back-ends) in a branch and have some users test it. This is the only way
> to know if the syntax is sufficient.
> 
> WDYT?

I will rename the module as you suggest.  I would also like to polish
a few more things.  Unlike other contrib modules, I want this module
to be changed only by FSF-approved authors so that I can put it on GNU
ELPA.

(My future assignment is through, so the route is clear.)

----------------------------------------------------------------

While we are on this...

I would like to submit some patches to ox-odt.el.  I have plenty of
local changes (that were made on a older version of trunk).

As part of preparation for submitting my changes to Org repo,

1. I have reverted patches applied to the trunk since my change.
2. Applied my patches to (1).
3. Re-play (1) on top of 3.

Since my dis-appearance couple of months ago, there have been more
changes to ox-odt.el (which I need to replay again).

Here is a snapshot of my workarea:
http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git/shortlog. Step (1) above
corresponds to this
commit.
(http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git/commit/739ddc3b27a5a2f0b05b576f671069c868835a21)


a) I haven't updated the ODT nodes of Info manual.  I would prefer to
   update the manual AFTER the merge of elisp code.

b) Bugs if any introduced by my merge are going to be minor and IMHO,
   they could be taken up AFTER the merge.

I hope the above arrangement for merging my changes is agreeable to
the maintainers.  (Let me know what you think)

This message is more of a heads-up.  I will let you know once I am
done with (3).  Meanwhile, I would encourage the current ODT exporter
users to try out my new private repo and report any issues.

Re: New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Rasmus]

Hi,

Vaidheeswaran C <vaidheeswaran.chinnaraju@gmail.com> writes:

> (My future assignment is through, so the route is clear.)

Can you clarify on this?  My understanding was that it was retracted a
while back under much fuss.

> I hope the above arrangement for merging my changes is agreeable to
> the maintainers.  (Let me know what you think)

Copyright assignment AND good behavior towards all users, developers and
maintainers of Org is all that is asked.

—Rasmus

-- 
. . . It begins of course with The Internet.  A Net of Peers

Re: New Citation syntax on the master branch?

[Bastien]

Hi Vaidheeswaran/Jambunathan,

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

>> (My future assignment is through, so the route is clear.)
>
> Can you clarify on this?  My understanding was that it was retracted a
> while back under much fuss.

This is also my understanding.

If I'm wrong, I'll happily stand corrected and we will be allowed
to integrate your patches into org-mode's core code.

Also, we need to know under what identity you want to file your
change: "Jambunathan" or "Vaidheeswaran"?

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien