From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20385: [PATCH] Support curved quotes in doc strings Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 16:52:23 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <555686B7.60808@cs.ucla.edu> References: <1429555155-4695-1-git-send-email-eggert@cs.ucla.edu> <5552FDAC.4080004@cs.ucla.edu> <55534080.6010400@yandex.ru> <555369FD.30701@cs.ucla.edu> <5553D12F.7000809@yandex.ru> <5554155E.70000@cs.ucla.edu> <55547DC6.3090509@yandex.ru> <5555A4ED.8090500@cs.ucla.edu> <55562BB0.2010605@yandex.ru> <555640E9.4060203@cs.ucla.edu> <55564460.4020208@yandex.ru> <55566196.40105@cs.ucla.edu> <55566990.8020506@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431734009 23032 80.91.229.3 (15 May 2015 23:53:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 23:53:29 +0000 (UTC) To: Dmitry Gutov , 20385@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 16 01:53:16 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YtPPo-0006dB-Az for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 May 2015 01:53:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33244 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YtPPn-0004FP-TI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:53:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36710) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YtPPf-000477-R7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:53:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YtPPa-0005iH-N1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:53:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:36606) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YtPPa-0005iD-JL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:53:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YtPPa-00059u-Ct for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:53:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 23:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20385 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 20385-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20385.143173395719780 (code B ref 20385); Fri, 15 May 2015 23:53:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20385) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 May 2015 23:52:37 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46580 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YtPPA-00058x-3w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:52:36 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:35307) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YtPP7-00058j-Gi for 20385@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:52:34 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A76C39E8019; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:52:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Voa1d3To5WjO; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 96D3C39E8014; Fri, 15 May 2015 16:52:26 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 In-Reply-To: <55566990.8020506@yandex.ru> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:102854 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov wrote: > What if the locale mandates the use of some other kind of quotes? Then copying > and pasting won't work anyway. Yes it will. It'll work fine. If a documentation string is in (say) Hungarian, a user will be able to paste quoted Hungarian text into it, and the text will carry its Hungarian quotation marks along. It'll be just like documentation in English and with English quotes. > I've never had a need to copy a diagnostic message with the > intention to paste it into the source code. Shrug. I've done it. And vice versa. And there are other examples. The point is that it's simpler and nicer if cutting and pasting Just Works. > Actually, it's a decent argument against using *any particular locale's* > quoting, in order not to confuse casual contributors, who'd have to know that > *these* fancy quotes will be localized, but *those* - won't. No, there's normally no need to localize those curved quotes, not if the text is English and uses English quoting. The only time one would need to localize is for obsolete displays lacking curved quotes, which casual contributors are unlikely to be using nowadays anyway. > Maybe you could paste quotes, but not any other kind of formatting. First, that's not true: many other kinds of formatting (though obviously not all) can also be cut and pasted from info into .texi files. Second, even if it were true it'd be OK. One improvement at a time. Quotes are such a common kind of formatting that simplifying their cutting and pasting is worth doing even if we can't simplify all forms of formatting. > And you can notice that if we delimited docstrings with curly quotes instead of > the straight quotation marks, tildify-space wouldn't have been able to use them > exactly this way inside the docstring. That's not a significant problem, as it applies to any convention that uses only paired quotes. For example, the current documentation for skeleton-pair-insert-maybe says "These are (), [], {}, <> and `' ...", and the reader needs to infer that those instances of ` and ' are not quotes, but are characters. This sort of thing happens every now and then in documentation, and it's no big deal. > I know of no serious markup language that utilizes unicode, even now. Texinfo does. Unicode curved quotes are part of the markup. They affect spacing among other things. > I don't see it as clunky That's the main point of disagreement here. Although Emacs old-timers are used to quoting `like this', to newbies it's a weird and offputting relic from ancient history.