From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>, 20385@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#20385: [PATCH] Support curved quotes in doc strings
Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 11:54:33 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <555640E9.4060203@cs.ucla.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <55562BB0.2010605@yandex.ru>
On 05/15/2015 10:24 AM, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> It still doesn't have the fancy quotes directly in the source code:
> they seem to be generated dynamically
Yes, GCC uses "%< %>" in format strings to represent curved quotes, and
Coreutils has a function 'quote (X)' that returns X surrounded by curved
quotes. However, these are both awkward compared to just using quotes.
GCC and Coreutils use these awkward constructs because they can't assume
decent support for Unicode. Emacs doesn't have this constraint, so it
can do better.
> On the other hand, you'll be able to dynamically determine which
> quotes to use, depending e.g. on the locale.
That's an independent issue: it can be done no matter what quoting
regime the source code uses. But it's probably not worth doing
separately. Once we're worried about different locales, we'll need to
translate the strings to Russian (or whatever) and at that point we can
translate the quotes to use «Russian style». (And yes, Emacs should do
this, just as GCC and Coreutils do -- but one thing at a time.)
> Neither of those should be particularly hard to implement.
I'm not that worried about the cost of implementation now. I'm worried
about the long-term cost of having a quoting regime that requires
documentation and explanation. It's simpler and easier to explain if
the doc string looks the same in the UI as it does while you're editing
it. For example, you can easily cut and paste from the UI into the doc
string source when composing a new doc string, which is something that
doesn't work well for either GCC or Coreutils.
> - Using unicode for markup is a complication (e.g. with certain mail
> clients, but some other instances might come up).
It's a complication we already have, as we already use UTF-8 in a few
doc strings. For example, the documentation for prettify-symbols-mode
uses UTF-8 curved double-quotes. This usage will naturally grow in
time. Yes, there will be some email glitches but they'll be easy to
iron out as we gain experience.
> - I don't like having two standards for quoting.
Nor do I. This is a transition process, with the long-term goal of
quoting via quotes rather than via grave accent and apostrophe. It's not
practical to do this transition all at once, hence the transition
period. But in the long run there'll be just one standard way to quote
(even if Emacs supports the obsolete way indefinitely).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-05-15 18:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 102+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-04-20 18:39 bug#20385: [PROPOSED PATCH] Support quoting 'like this' in doc strings Paul Eggert
2015-04-20 19:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 0:18 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-21 0:53 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-21 1:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 1:30 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-21 1:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 3:45 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-21 14:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-21 18:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 18:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-21 19:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-21 19:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-21 20:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-22 7:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-22 13:52 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-22 13:59 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-04-22 14:52 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-22 23:36 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-23 0:23 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-04-23 6:45 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-23 9:14 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-04-23 10:22 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-23 11:15 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-04-23 17:32 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-23 18:23 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-23 19:38 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-23 20:07 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-23 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-23 23:24 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-24 0:24 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-24 4:47 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-23 19:47 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-04-23 19:57 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-23 2:19 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-23 6:45 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-23 14:51 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-23 15:32 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-23 17:11 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-23 19:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-23 20:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-23 20:13 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-24 6:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-24 3:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-24 6:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-24 13:43 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-21 18:44 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-04-21 20:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-22 0:49 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-22 23:37 ` Paul Eggert
2015-04-23 6:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-21 18:35 ` Ivan Shmakov
2015-04-21 18:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-21 19:37 ` Ivan Shmakov
2015-04-21 19:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.1406.1429745828.904.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-23 12:11 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-04-23 12:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-04-23 12:45 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-04-23 13:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.1407.1429745888.904.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-23 12:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-04-23 19:42 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-13 7:30 ` bug#20385: [PATCH] Support curved quotes " Paul Eggert
2015-05-13 12:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-13 15:13 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-13 22:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-14 3:24 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-14 10:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-15 7:49 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-15 17:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-15 18:54 ` Paul Eggert [this message]
2015-05-15 19:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-15 21:13 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-15 21:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-15 23:52 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-16 0:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-16 0:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-16 1:48 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-16 8:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-19 23:27 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-20 2:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-21 7:21 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-21 10:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-21 14:58 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-22 3:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-05-16 9:51 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-05-16 1:23 ` Drew Adams
2015-05-16 6:20 ` Paul Eggert
2015-05-16 7:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-05-14 7:10 ` bug#20385: missing charset for non-ASCII text/x-patch MIME parts in Thunderbird Ivan Shmakov
2015-05-14 7:10 ` Ivan Shmakov
2015-05-14 8:28 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-05-14 8:28 ` bug#20385: " Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-05-14 7:20 ` bug#20385: Support curved quotes in doc strings Ivan Shmakov
2015-05-14 14:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-05-14 20:05 ` Ivan Shmakov
2015-05-14 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-05-14 20:30 ` Ivan Shmakov
[not found] <<1429555155-4695-1-git-send-email-eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
2015-04-20 20:16 ` bug#20385: [PROPOSED PATCH] Support quoting 'like this' " Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<jwvtwwabnhp.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<5535974D.9050207@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<jwvvbgqs2ud.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<5535C7F3.7020107@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<83618p5y9w.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<jwvk2x59x4g.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<83vbgp49ve.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<jwv8udl9syp.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<83pp6x45x5.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<5536ACB3.9040707@yandex.ru>
[not found] ` <<83lhhk4phe.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<fe3d90cd-056a-49a6-a049-6df07e710663@default>
[not found] ` <<87a8y0jmba.fsf@petton.fr>
[not found] ` <<6837d058-ba18-461b-8af6-2c4e6d767348@default>
[not found] ` <<55383081.4010106@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<87a8xzae0o.fsf@petton.fr>
[not found] ` <<55389500.8000404@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<878udj9pfq.fsf@petton.fr>
[not found] ` <<5538C7EC.9010105@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<877ft39juq.fsf@petton.fr>
[not found] ` <<55392C91.1010300@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<84f4aea9-c3ef-44c5-ac06-0df72d223e8c@default>
[not found] ` <<55394A2E.8020002@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<f978526c-c5e3-405d-ae75-63b9ed5d4537@default>
[not found] ` <<83lhhizjqw.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-04-23 20:15 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-24 6:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<55394E30.8040307@yandex.ru>
[not found] ` <<83oamezk77.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<4b159230-cd7e-4cb9-a778-3ad7ed2ae301@default>
[not found] ` <<83k2x2ys1b.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-04-24 14:11 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-24 14:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
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