From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16617: 24.3.50; REGRESSION: `C-q ?' pops up annoying *Char Help* buffer Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 13:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <550942a2-401c-41a3-854a-f5f22a87d606@default> References: <> <<83r45c98yb.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1396642891 20235 80.91.229.3 (4 Apr 2014 20:21:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 20:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: sdl.web@gmail.com, 16617@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 04 22:21:23 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WWAc7-0002fM-9Z for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 22:21:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52061 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WWAc6-0003q4-Ly for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:21:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50572) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WWAbv-0003py-Cu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:21:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WWAbm-0007gS-I6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:21:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:34515) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WWAbm-0007gO-E5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:21:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WWAbl-0003wU-On for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:21:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 20:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16617 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16617-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16617.139664284815119 (code B ref 16617); Fri, 04 Apr 2014 20:21:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16617) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Apr 2014 20:20:48 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35695 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WWAbY-0003vn-49 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:20:48 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:43525) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WWAbV-0003va-Si for 16617@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:20:46 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s34KKZDC007407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 Apr 2014 20:20:36 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s34KKXxq000145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 4 Apr 2014 20:20:35 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s34KKXqb000136; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 20:20:33 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83r45c98yb.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:87757 Archived-At: > > 3. This *Char Help* buffer should not be popped up at all - > > for ANY char that you type after `C-q'. This is a > > misfeature. >=20 > (Of course now you will claim that F1 is not a character.) You can take anything you want out of context, if your aim is to obfuscate. I have made it clear MANY times by now that THIS bug is about `?', and specifically when it is not bound to a help char. I have also said, as in the quote above, that IMO `C-q' should quote all chars, regardless of whether they are bound to a help char. And I pointed out that this is already the case for `C-q C-h' (to which you have nothing to say, apparently). But I have clearly insisted that THIS bug is not about fixing that more general problem too. I said that we can discuss that separately, if you like. (And yes, I also pointed out from the outset - not just "now" - that F1 is not a char.) Even the subject line summarizes this bug fairly well. The only thing it does not do is distinguish (e.g., exclude) the tiny minority of cases where `?' is a help char. It clearly does not say that `C-q' must quote all chars. And again, `C-q' DOES quote the help char `C-h'. Based on your silence about `C-h' and your argument that `?' should not be quoted BECAUSE it is a help char (which it is only rarely, BTW), you seem to claim that `C-q' should quote some help chars but not others. Maybe you would like to clarify that? > > > _That_ is certainly not a regression, as Emacs have > > > behaved like that since about forever. > > > > I also doubt that that is true. Certainly in Emacs 20 `C-q ?' > > inserts `?' when `?' is not a help char. IOW, THIS regression is > > not present in Emacs 20. >=20 > Try with F1. Again, "THIS regression". Search for "THIS" in the thread and you will find that I've been very clear that THIS bug is about `?'. =20 > > And `grep' does not find "Char Help" anywhere in the Emacs 20 > > lisp or C files. >=20 > It was just *Help* back then. OK, I see that. But again, `C-q ?' does not show the help, in *Help* or anywhere else. THIS bug is a clear regression wrt Emacs 20. And, as mentioned, also wrt Emacs 22 through 24.3. For none of those releases does `C-q ?' show help.