From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary (Re: A system for localizing documentation strings) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:13:59 +0900 Message-ID: <54DEC3AF-01E8-47A3-9E98-809533217E71@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> References: <795F38F4-7253-47DC-97DD-53BED4F0AB97@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <46A9A6DA.9020908@swipnet.se> <46A9AA59.20403@gnu.org> <46A9B519.9010307@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1185538471 19292 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2007 12:14:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:14:31 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 27 14:14:25 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IEOi9-0002pK-6K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:14:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEOi8-0005mt-Eu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:14:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IEOi3-0005iZ-Ls for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:14:19 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IEOi0-0005iN-5k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:14:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEOi0-0005iI-1d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:14:16 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp9.tiki.ne.jp ([218.40.30.106]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IEOhy-0001ZK-Hx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:14:15 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.11.4] (pl062.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp [210.136.182.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp9.tiki.ne.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6RCEAMw062467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:14:11 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from fusion@mx6.tiki.ne.jp) In-Reply-To: <46A9B519.9010307@swipnet.se> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 5.3-5.4 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:75673 Archived-At: On 27 juil. 07, at 18:04, Jan Dj=E4rv wrote: > Jason Rumney skrev: >> Jan Dj=E4rv wrote: >>> We don't need that. Translators are organized in teams, and =20 >>> everything uses >>> gettext. We do not want a different mechanism here. Many =20 >>> translators >>> translates programs they very rarely, if ever, use. It would be =20 >>> a mistake to >>> not use gettext. >>> >> >> I disagree. It is a mistake to use any system that requires code =20 >> to be >> modified to fit with its conventions before translation can occur. We >> cannot guarantee that maintainers of external lisp packages will =20 >> do the >> work that is required. Since we already have mechanisms in place that >> extract doc strings, tooltip text and menu text for display, we =20 >> should >> add the necessary hooks at that point to provide translations =20 >> transparently. > > We can not guarantee that maintainers of external lisp packages =20 > will do > anything, regardless of what mechanism Emacs use. But the point is =20= > that Emacs > is unlikely to be translated by the translation teams that are =20 > already outh > there if a completely new mechanism that differs much from gettext =20 > is adopted. This is preposterous. There are plenty of localization teams that =20 handle many different processes, source files, translation tools. Gettext is far from being the only way to localization. And here I =20 mean localization as menu items + interface messages + documentation, =20= where documentation weights much more than all the other strings =20 combined. Besides, gettext may be good for short sentences (specifically menu =20 items and short messages) but documentation translation is a totally =20 different process. Obviously the self-documentation feature that is advertised as one of =20= emacs's specificity should be handled in a very emacsy way that fits =20 with its paradigm. Jean-Christophe Helary