From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: please make line-move-visual nil Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 01:17:54 -0700 Message-ID: <54A5E41E3FD446F590AA580D90C5B518@us.oracle.com> References: <23521879.post@talk.nabble.com><7b501d5c0905131659r1d79ec56s5a59f76e4713edf9@mail.gmail.com><23532135.post@talk.nabble.com> <87tz3odq3l.fsf@iki.fi><23538683.post@talk.nabble.com> <87eiuru24b.fsf@iki.fi><39370.130.55.118.19.1242397867.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov><48914.130.55.118.19.1242592120.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov><66C6BA04EBCF4B6DAED69E851627D852@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243239563 27782 80.91.229.12 (25 May 2009 08:19:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:19:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 10:19:16 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M8VOt-0008EX-SA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 10:19:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59073 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8VOt-0003vr-AS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 04:19:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8VNT-0001z9-2Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 04:17:47 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8VNO-0001vY-6U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 04:17:46 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53210 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8VNO-0001vO-0D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 04:17:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:43435) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M8VNN-0000fv-81 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 04:17:41 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123] helo=rgminet11.oracle.com) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M8VNM-0006mf-7l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 04:17:40 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4P8IEau025144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 May 2009 08:18:16 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt009.oracle.com (abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n4P8HdMh032230; Mon, 25 May 2009 08:17:40 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/98.210.250.59) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 25 May 2009 01:17:35 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acnc3PxDtqjWJNcaQiG7UwPdfbLxYwALeiEQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: abhmt009.oracle.com [141.146.116.18] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4A1A5420.0207:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Detected-Operating-System: by mx20.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111071 Archived-At: > > I'm coming back to this thread because I just tried the new pretest > > (23.0.94.1), where the default value of `line-move-visual' is t. > > > This is insane, IMO. The default value is t even in formatted modes > > such as Buffer Menu and Info. It is t even in code modes such as > > Emacs-Lisp. If you use `define-derived-mode' to define a > new mode from > > scratch - a mode that has no parent mode, it has value t in that > > mode. It has value t everywhere, by default. This makes no sense. > > > If you absolutely feel the need to make the default value be t for > > modes such as text-mode, which (you are convinced) are likely to > > benefit from it, then do so. But PLEASE leave the rest of Emacs > > alone, by default. This is a bad choice for Emacs - please > > reconsider this. > > We've talked it over repeatedly. Well, I haven't. This is the first I've spoken up on it. Call me a latecomer. Are you saying the party is over? Doesn't sound like it... > Add (setq line-move-visual nil) to > your .emacs and live happily ever after. Right. Same old same old... What is wrong with the proposal that the default be different, depending on the type of buffer? That seems quite sensible. We can argue over which buffer types should have a non-nil default, but at least making some such division makes sense. I personally would argue that only a minority of modes should have non-nil by default, but at least such a partition could be discussed. I would be perfectly happy with a non-nil default for text-mode and modes that inherit from it or are similar to it - mail composition buffers, for instance. And nil for the other modes - those that are for code or tabular or otherwise formatted text (in the sense of laid out, not in the sense of enriched text). That is a sensible default behavior, to me. I probably wouldn't even customize it, if the defaults were like that. I don't particularly _want_ a nil value everywhere. And I certainly don't want a non-nil value everywhere. Why not make this a little more flexible, and give it reasonable defaults based on the buffer type?