From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 11:30:33 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <5485FC59.5030700@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <2815659.zRQ0WWWeRr@descartes> <20141205175810.GD3120@thyrsus.com> <87lhmlncb1.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <20141205193643.GB5067@thyrsus.com> <87tx19rd1b.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <20141205215138.GF7784@thyrsus.com> <54823617.4000406@cs.ucla.edu> <83k325195l.fsf@gnu.org> <5482D94B.2070102@cs.ucla.edu> <5484FF31.5010808@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418067076 19860 80.91.229.3 (8 Dec 2014 19:31:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 19:31:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 08 20:31:08 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy41U-0004XB-GA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 20:31:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35693 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy41U-00029g-3a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 14:31:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39125) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy41K-00029X-0d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 14:31:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy41C-0001Eo-FX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 14:30:57 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:37074) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy411-0001By-FP; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 14:30:39 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D18AA60021; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 11:30:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LZPmiR38fAAN; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 11:30:33 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 982B8A6002B; Mon, 8 Dec 2014 11:30:33 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.62 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179450 Archived-At: On 12/07/2014 06:30 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > I think I understand why they don't want to fix the processing speed. > But we should still push them to provide workarounds. "Separate > compilation" would solve this problem It might, yes. But that sounds like more work than switching input formats would be, if some other input format already has good support for most of what we want. > Indeed the slowdown (factor 100 IIRC last time I measured it) is > a serious problem. Absolutely. Texinfo's performance is a real turnoff for me, and it can't be encouraging potential contributors. One possible way to move forward would be to try one or two alternatives (Org mode, Asciidoc, whatever) on something relatively small. It wouldn't have to be an Emacs manual. We could use the proposed new technology or technologies on (say) the Grep manual, and see how well it works there. This would mimic how we already did the Gnulib and Git conversions: we first converted smaller projects, and eventually got around to Emacs.