From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#32643: 26; minor-mode variables Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 19:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <54558a99-f16d-41d4-ada4-02b4e598f426@default> References: <3ce888af-aa04-4dd2-99b5-0882e37024f3@default> <494224f1-815f-4fb4-a779-75e243b519f0@default> <87zhwsg2s5.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536373448 20291 195.159.176.226 (8 Sep 2018 02:24:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 02:24:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, 32643@debbugs.gnu.org To: Noam Postavsky Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 08 04:24:04 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fySun-00058O-V3 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Sat, 8 Sep 2018 02:25:42 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w882PfRx028987; Sat, 8 Sep 2018 02:25:41 GMT In-Reply-To: <87zhwsg2s5.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4735.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9009 signatures=668708 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=2 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=611 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1809080022 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:150129 Archived-At: > > And that "should" is not respected by some variables from basic > > Emacs itself - in particular `auto-fill-mode'. Shouldn't it be? > > > > Nothing requires everything in the Emacs distribution to respect > > each convention that Emacs sets forth. But is there a reason why > > `auto-fill-mode' (and others?) should not respect this convention? > > If nothing else, I'm curious why the exception(s). >=20 > Applying common sense, the obvious explanation is that auto-fill-mode > controls only a single variable (i.e., `auto-fill-function'), and adding > an extra `auto-fill-mode' which would then have to be kept in sync just > to conform to some convention is not worth the trouble. Thanks. It may be obvious to someone looking at the code, but it's not obvious to someone (or some code) that looks only for mode variable `auto-fill-mode'. But yes, in this case it is apparently not a historical accident that there is no `auto-fill-mode' variable. And the doc string does helpfully say that you can look at that other variable instead. (Code looking only for the expected mode variable won't see that, but a person can.) > > (The bug report also asks whether it's a bug for a mode not to have > > a variable, and suggests that it is. And if it's not, the report asks t= hat > > the Elisp manual give some guidance about when a mode should > > not or need not have a variable.) >=20 > I don't think the Elisp manual needs to fill in for user's common sense > by telling them they are free to break conventions if it makes sense to > do so. The fact that it's a "convention" and not a "requirement" should > be enough. It's not about users being free to break the convention - that's of course the case, for all Emacs conventions. It's about having some idea (see above) of when it might "make sense to do so". That users are free to not follow an Elisp coding convention is something different from whether and how much the distributed Emacs Lisp code should do so. The bug report is not about whether some user code should follow the convention - you twisted that around.