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Fri, 1 Sep 2023 05:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87zg26gy9i.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.20; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -62 X-Spam_score: -6.3 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.478, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309739 Archived-At: Hi! On 01/09/2023 10:15, Visuwesh wrote: > [வெள்ளி செப்டம்பர் 01, 2023] Dmitry Gutov wrote: > >> [...] >> The "minimum blood" would be mumi because from what it seems like it >> retains all the email interactions and adds some moderately better >> looks when viewed on the web on top of that. As well as faster search. >> >> But since it has the least "familiarity" factor among all of the >> discussed solutions (and features, of course, and usability testing, >> and etc...), the ability to attract more and more diverse users and >> developers though modern tooling would correspondingly be lower. >> >> There is a sweet spot somewhere, but I don't have any scientific >> argument for its position. Though if I try to imagine myself 10-15 >> years younger (rather difficult), the grading would most likely be >> Github > Gitlab >> Bugzilla > mumi >> Debbugs. Add a pound of salt, of >> course. > > You don't have to imagine yourself younger because I was eighteen or > nineteen when I first posted a bug report to debbugs. ;-) Not sure if > this is your target audience though. You are part of my target audience, of course. Hopefully. > I did not have problems with sending the mail to the right address but > knowing whether my mail reached the mailing list/debbugs was an issue > since I could not see it pop up in the bug-gnu-emacs mailing list > archive. Much later I learnt that there is a manual approval process > for fresh email addresses and that's why my acknowledgement mail was > sent some 10 hours later (I went to sleep after submitting said bug > report). If there was a message along the lines of, “Your message has > been received and will be forwarded to the Emacs developers once your > email address has been manually approved to check whether your mail is > spam or not” I think the first experience would have been smoother. > > As for submitting patches, I much much much much prefer the Emacs way™. > It is so much better than forking the repo, creating a new branch, > fighting with Git to merge/rebase and push properly without --force (I > still don't know how to do the latter FWIW). And don't get me started on > amendments after creating the PR... For Emacs, I can develop the patch > however I want and simply attach it to a mail---I cannot emphasise how > much simpler and effortless this feels. It is a good thing that Emacs > actually prefers patches as assignment over `git send-email'---nothing > is more of a pain than setting up an email client especially in a > CLI/TUI setting. When you have only used the GMail/Yahoo web client for > email, all the terminologies that the man page and the tutorials throw > at you simply flies over your head and you give up. Now, the most > common mail provider Gmail has made it a huge PITA to use a custom email > client as well... > > So let me reiterate: I find it so comforting that Emacs accepts patches > (1) via email, and (2) as attachments. I'm glad that you like it here, and we should say that the ability to submit patch via an attachment shouldn't ever go away. I even post patches on Github inline (via markdown blocks) sometimes, puzzling occasional passers-by. So the number of options how to submit and discuss a patch shouldn't go down in any case, only up. Note, however, that knowing how to work with Git and understanding its repository model (and knowing to to do merges/rebases/etc) is going to be very useful for your career, at least if you're a programmer or a data scientist. >> There should also be SourceHut on this scale, but I don't know where >> to put it. > > Cannot comment on how everyone else uses Sourcehut but my experience was > slightly better than Debbugs because I got instant feedback from the > mailing list archive and Philip accepts patches as attachments. ;-) > Generally, I don't find their web UI all that useful since they drop the > entire message after the attachment. I am not sure if there are plans > to fix it since Sourcehut people prefer `git send-email' AFAIK. Yes, they do have a weak spot in the web UI department. But basically anything is better than Debbugs, IMO ;-(