From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: clang vs free software Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:28:32 -0800 Message-ID: <52E448A0.6010405@dancol.org> References: <87fvqtg02v.fsf@flea.lifelogs.com> <87sitkzahs.fsf@yandex.ru> <52D7DAAB.2070709@yandex.ru> <52D81960.2080408@yandex.ru> <52DA8C17.4080707@yandex.ru> <52DC00E5.3020803@yandex.ru> <52DC6A26.3020003@yandex.ru> <87k3dv9z85.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87eh439w1n.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ha8yqvup.fsf@engster.org> <87r47zezcc.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390692513 4228 80.91.229.3 (25 Jan 2014 23:28:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 23:28:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org, Helmut Eller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 26 00:28:41 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W7CeX-0006dS-4q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 00:28:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52881 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W7CeW-0008Rs-NH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:28:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45921) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W7CeT-0008RS-0q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:28:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W7CeS-0004Ko-89 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:28:36 -0500 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:49164) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W7CeQ-0004Ji-KV; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:28:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:CC:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=J+AiDoDrOGr5IwrsERrV5RO9WupBh1GT8gzzjdsH85w=; b=HTjT22IgkUuaYrk3L1ivussnFLvS5rTb1xaUbl+I5tLXotTa0rVO5AVx6WAUNDG6CP6djK4RBUNbFKGH7mM1NOu6AcJHgXWtjf9TkNaZKIJsZ6gEs9gJ3AJizjM8ECqoZtQgyyc05Rfzr+y3S2DWfpolFg60nmo89LwAmhyMf4m0rWKQwGf/LD2BJ+2ILU2TqdhcGJI1iJZEiOl5Um9lsFrUXon46uxTmKHMLGJnIg15Afy1tWGnWMFzaJhnmD7v8ZX8KN3az/TxEGf0gR6mZJPpSicTde9mb8TESUuIJagXpJAQyIe9Ze5YRpVZYVC8KVkyopzzyRCkLyY2p2q2pA==; Original-Received: from [2601:8:b240:b7::2b1] by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1W7CeQ-000344-1K; Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:28:34 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:169095 Archived-At: On 01/25/2014 03:02 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > We don't want to make a program's entire AST available for parsing > because that would make it easy to extend GCC with proprietary > programs. It would also have made it easy to add modern features to Emacs and other free editors. Symbol table information is flatly inadequate given that in modern languages, typing information is highly contextual. Users will adopt tools that provide these features when FSF programs support these features or not. If you keep these features out of GCC, users will go to Clang. If you keep Clang integration out of Emacs, users will either maintain out-of-tree integration or (eventually) just fork Emacs, as the various starter-kit packages have already essentially done. Free software is great, but if nobody uses it, the entire enterprise is futile, sad, and ultimately irrelevant. How will the world be a better place when almost every every free operating system and free development environment is based on Clang and explicitly non-free derivatives are rampant?