From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] About the :distant-foreground face attribute Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 00:05:56 -0800 Message-ID: <52D64164.7000401@dancol.org> References: <87bnzo9cja.fsf@gnu.org> <59B7E7FC-48D0-4737-B1BB-FFAC5BA9E07A@swipnet.se> <874n5f3162.fsf@gnu.org> <83fvozf86g.fsf@gnu.org> <87r48javwe.fsf@gnu.org> <83bnzmfjxe.fsf@gnu.org> <52D3E689.6050902@dancol.org> <8E16225F-53EF-498A-AB35-66EB9B33B859@swipnet.se> <52D43360.6050605@dancol.org> <9BD01B88-AF13-44DD-8DBE-4598BAC136DD@swipnet.se> <52D45C73.6090906@dancol.org> <52D4EBA9.8050802@swipnet.se> <52D4F2C2.8080800@dancol.org> <52D504A7.80104@swipnet.se> <52D514FF.7010404@dancol.org> <52D52312.6070106@swipnet.se> <52D58632.3010106@dancol.org> <381DEBDC-71D8-4FAC-BA55-897FEC73A2FC@swipnet.se> <52D598AF.9050306@dancol.org> <52D5B6AB.50109@dancol.org> <2BAA45E8-D1C0-4028-89AD-726A10474D11@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389773170 30198 80.91.229.3 (15 Jan 2014 08:06:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 08:06:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Chong Yidong , emacs-devel To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 15 09:06:16 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W3LUN-0007H8-Qo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 09:06:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52776 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W3LUM-00019y-TI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 03:06:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51151) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W3LUH-00016i-3U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 03:06:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W3LUF-0001b1-Vr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 03:06:09 -0500 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3]:59769) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W3LUC-0001XZ-0y; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 03:06:04 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:CC:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=uqB9vly5PYQgvDELKm9Pq/CRDAz7Exc26rBCSmovax8=; b=Xz6KpD1p6Ntpvy6B7xQbIj7J/xkDudd0gO5j0xghTg7WNEO77REapasTVT0pdQCJiMc+X5YCfdhEuNTSeYyW0YbFBJ5gcWoWSI96lTSyYzAURhpC+WCnsEKRrm4pqW8Udyls5qOOcmzAOjYkHyv3Lk/+5pt2W/UkpLi+4y2JDesjGVLCbyfe7Nxo0nRRJd1k51mcIbzCxGMIttmCNFTkKlE6yQK7al5Zj00SOjGOABC0QTzZtty82hh7/0jvBO25+YBwssupeZtvyPxc6MdTYE8S8MgzeU/CwYFkulH2VmzkZgFQd8dU9EJXg6iz8SAYrpVR+T3Us3WVoVGGY89r5A==; Original-Received: from [2601:8:b200:217:2b5:6dff:fe05:12e5] by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1W3LUA-0003vj-LT; Wed, 15 Jan 2014 00:06:02 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: <2BAA45E8-D1C0-4028-89AD-726A10474D11@swipnet.se> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:adf3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:168443 Archived-At: On 01/14/2014 10:33 PM, Jan Djärv wrote: >>> This is currently for NS/Gtk+ only. For Lucid/Motif/No toolkit, we don't use >>> system colors at all, because they are not known and can not be known, >>> because the API to get them is not available. >>> >>>> You're applying this principle very selectively. >>> >>> System background + contrast problem => system foreground. >>> How is that selectively, it is a clear rule. >> >> It's clear, but arbitrary. Another clear and arbitrary rule is this: >>You're merely stated your conclusion. You think it's okay >> System background + contrast problem => adjust foreground. >> >> You haven't presented any justification for your arbitrary rule being better than my arbitrary rule. > > I have stated my justification as such: User and system > configurations should override Emacs settings and code in the default > case, i.e. when the user has made no explicit customization in > Emacs. You haven't stated any justification at all. All you've done is re-assert your position. You clearly think it's okay for Emacs to override the foreground selection color in some circumstances, otherwise you'd support keeping the 24.3 behavior. You're justifying your particular strategy for handling contrast inherent in the new behavior by invoking a principle you *JUST VIOLATED* by creating the problematic new behavior. We have to do something about contrast problems. Why do you think your solution produces better results than mine? If, to render something the user can actually read, we have to choose a foreground color other than what normal face logic would produce, why use the system selection foreground color instead of some other color we algorithmically create? Please don't invoke the "system settings should override Emacs" crap again: that idea clearly doesn't hold in the case we're talking about.