From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16402: 24.3.50; Document nadvice.el stuff in Elisp manual before Emacs 24.4 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:21:07 -0800 Message-ID: <52D06443.2020700@dancol.org> References: <86r48glgbt.fsf@gmail.com> <4e0a82f8-0a1b-4325-ba66-dc5c61ae53b4@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389388930 15003 80.91.229.3 (10 Jan 2014 21:22:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:22:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 16402@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams , Stefan Monnier , Andy Moreton Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 10 22:22:17 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jWy-0000ri-RH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 22:22:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59133 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jWy-00086V-8F for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:22:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47639) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jWq-000858-DN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:22:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jWk-0004FL-SL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:22:08 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:59829) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jWk-0004FE-Hy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:22:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jWj-00070c-UT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:22:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Daniel Colascione Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:22:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16402.138938888426889 (code B ref 16402); Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:22:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2014 21:21:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45615 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jW7-0006zc-BI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:21:23 -0500 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([96.126.100.184]:58989) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jW4-0006zT-0J for 16402@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 16:21:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:CC:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=qfO1lrjErV4kAQQOcByfPRDRk6G/XGH3VhowjNE+1IA=; b=ezbPJ/H9wxBBtdtCYVgCe5ugA8zRYjOwVabc3CcgCiC0eedUgkMputxsECIyok/IotiNE10pLr8LSyY3GN9JcjvtbOt5SfKEY2wTwjmwzq2ut6mnwfwxg2fDf3EqAzvtWvm2GQbC3Of1yfNqpAXviuvKOmT6Db1b8zhsqHQvQZ0vyC0UAVxVTJQ4r+EHMzumPSHGwrhFheVuj8UT1CUaN6+HtwoDHsBE1ehPJxmPr6k2uWtsexQCEkc4JqRQUp9CP/QQFoIyrm8eR49U5kWZQ/AQ43uSyU3xKJo5SOTEIf50JEte013tpEph4pQmghs9LJUnbtEo4PLPo7j0i1iPzA==; Original-Received: from [2620:0:1cfe:18:863a:4bff:fec8:e538] by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1jW0-00028y-BA; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:21:16 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: <4e0a82f8-0a1b-4325-ba66-dc5c61ae53b4@default> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:83254 Archived-At: On 01/10/2014 07:15 AM, Drew Adams wrote: >>> A rationale to explain why the existing advice package needs >>> changing would also be helpful. >> >> Here are some of the reasons: > > Excellent. Very glad to see design rationale documented like this. > Seriously. (Please keep it up.) Agreed. nadvice sounds like a good implementation change. The advice *interface*, however, isn't going away, so I'm hesitant to recommend the nadvice interface as well. Users will be confused about which to use. (Yes, we can tell users that advice is deprecated, but then a very large amount of working elisp code users see is "deprecated". What message does that send?) There's one part where I'm not sure I agree though. >> - advice.el is much too large to be preloaded, >> so for example debug.el refrained from using it. So what if it's large? Isn't it *because* a commonly-used package is large that we want to preload it? This way, we pay up-front for the cost of loading that package instead of making users load it on each start.