From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `' Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:58:31 -0800 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <52C25D07.80808@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20131229220810.GF7972@boo.workgroup> <52C0E734.4090403@cs.ucla.edu> <83sita1cbw.fsf@gnu.org> <52C1C456.2080004@cs.ucla.edu> <83fvpa16kh.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388469555 14093 80.91.229.3 (31 Dec 2013 05:59:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 05:59:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: grfz@gmx.de, 16292@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 31 06:59:20 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VxsMK-0007nk-5w for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 06:59:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60680 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxsMJ-000385-Ot for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:59:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58978) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxsM9-000370-NM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:59:17 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxsM2-0000Sn-Da for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:59:09 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:39745) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxsM2-0000Sj-Az for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:59:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VxsM1-0000kY-TD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:59:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 05:59:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16292.13884695152830 (code B ref 16292); Tue, 31 Dec 2013 05:59:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Dec 2013 05:58:35 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53764 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VxsLb-0000ja-7U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:58:35 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:34323) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VxsLZ-0000jN-MC for 16292@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:58:34 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A3839E810E; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:58:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1h5FzHdHNpXX; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:58:32 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-108-0-233-62.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [108.0.233.62]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5739F39E80F8; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:58:32 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: <83fvpa16kh.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:82775 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > (names of people) so using Latin-1 doesn't hamper users' > ability to read the manual in any way Most of the non-ASCII words are people's names, but many are not, and often ASCIIfying these would hurt the manual. These include symbols (e.g., "¬"), examples of encoding ("@samp{Naïve} is encoded as @samp{=?iso-8859-1?q?Na=EFve?=}"), calendars ("Bahá'í"), the names of GNU programs ("真 Gnus"), and configuration examples ("écrit" in email configuration). Nowadays, on GNUish and POSIXish systems in the Emacs target audience, there's more usage of UTF-8 than of Latin-1. On Ubuntu and Fedora, for example, the default locale for US English is en_US.utf8. Hence, converting info files to Latin-1 would hurt standalone info users in the typical setup on GNUish and POSIXish platforms. Perhaps Microsoft Windows users are different, and typically use Latin-1 or some other unibyte encoding. If so, then until standalone 'info' is improved we can support those users by converting the info files on Windows platforms, before installing the files. Perhaps this could be a configure-time option. Or, perhaps it's simpler to ask these folks to use Emacs to read their info files for now. In any event we shouldn't convert the manual source to Latin-1; not only would this lose information, it would hurt the typical standalone info use case on GNUish systems. In the short run, we do need to add @documentencoding directives to the manuals that are already using UTF-8, since makeinfo is currently mishandling these manuals. This isn't critical for the plain-ASCII manuals, and we could defer changes to the plain-ASCII manuals to the next version of Emacs if necessary, though I expect it's better to format all the manuals consistently.