From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David De La Harpe Golden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: APL mode Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 16:40:56 +0100 Message-ID: <526BE288.90601@harpegolden.net> References: <2556707.G5KkrEK5zp@descartes> <2175241.EV4ttzPlpJ@descartes> <52603276.70404@harpegolden.net> <526B9B04.3080404@t-online.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1382802070 13818 80.91.229.3 (26 Oct 2013 15:41:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 15:41:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Rustom Mody , emacs-devel To: Juergen Sauermann Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 26 17:41:15 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Va5zG-0003ah-By for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 17:41:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35100 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Va5zF-0005T0-U7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:41:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44246) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Va5z7-0005SU-Ty for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:41:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Va5z2-0002WB-L1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:41:05 -0400 Original-Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13]:53394) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Va5z2-0002W7-GM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:41:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [87.198.55.19] (87-198-55-19.ptr.magnet.ie [87.198.55.19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden", Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA 4" (verified OK)) by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 944DA3C04C; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 15:40:58 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130922 Icedove/17.0.9 In-Reply-To: <526B9B04.3080404@t-online.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 65.99.215.13 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:164558 Archived-At: On 26/10/13 11:35, Juergen Sauermann wrote: > Hi Rustom, > > With xmodmap you can make Alt and Alt-Gr different modifiers Okay, seems like there may be wheels being reinvented in them thar hills: xmodmap is _old_, xkb [1] exists. Though xkb is perhaps confusing and baroque, it's now clearly important to note that current xkb packages ubiquitous on gnu+linux systems _already include_ several variations of apl symbols [2], and you can use them [3]. They already look vaguely suitable for use with GNU APL, though there might be some different choices made, I didn't exhaustively verify. I'm afraid I personally tend to just "muddle through" xkb stuff right now, I'm not the right person to ask for in-depth support and advice with xkb. Perhaps you could contact the relevant xkb apl layout devs/maintainers named in [2] itself to discuss meeting your GNU APL keyboard needs. If, of course, they're not already met - and maybe it's early enough that GNU APL might also make changes if it indeed picked some different symbols to other unicode apls, there are a lot of lookalike unicode symbols... > I also believe that it is important to have the same method inside and > outside emacs. I think it's not such a problem if some intra-emacs quail input method works a bit differently, such input methods are more for people who either don't want to have a desktop-wide apl layout as above enabled and/or use emacs on a text terminal or with a peculiar input device or something. IMO an emacs apl mode for editing apl sources (and presumably a related inferior-apl for interactive apl interpreters under emacs) shouldn't need to get into handling actual apl symbol input, that's more of a job for xkb as above outside/over emacs, with quail input method(s) inside emacs being nice to have. [1] http://www.x.org/wiki/XKB/ [2] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xkeyboard-config/tree/symbols/apl Already present on my Debian 7.x system: $ dpkg -S /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/apl xkb-data: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/apl [3] http://aplinquisition.blogspot.com/2013/07/configuring-apl-keyboard-with-i3-window.html