bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

[Mike Kupfer]

Awhile back, I wanted to get numbered backup files for my Gnus
.newsrc.eld file, at least for a few days until I figured out why it was
getting trashed occasionally.  It took me quite some time to get it to
work, because I didn't know about gnus-backup-startup-file, and I
misunderstood part of the Info page "Backup Names".  That page says

    You can have Emacs set ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit
    a given file (*note File Variables::).  Some modes, such as Rmail
    mode, set this variable.

I think that last sentence would be clearer as

    Some packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
    ‘version-control’ in this manner.

thanks,
mike

bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@alum.berkeley.edu> writes:

> Awhile back, I wanted to get numbered backup files for my Gnus
> .newsrc.eld file, at least for a few days until I figured out why it was
> getting trashed occasionally.  It took me quite some time to get it to
> work, because I didn't know about gnus-backup-startup-file, and I
> misunderstood part of the Info page "Backup Names".  That page says
>
>     You can have Emacs set ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit
>     a given file (*note File Variables::).  Some modes, such as Rmail
>     mode, set this variable.
>
> I think that last sentence would be clearer as
>
>     Some packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
>     ‘version-control’ in this manner.

I don't think that's correct, though?  rmail-mode doesn't use file
variables, it does:

  (setq-local version-control 'never)

So it doesn't set version-control "in this manner", as far as I can tell?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

[Mike Kupfer]

Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@alum.berkeley.edu> writes:
> >     Some packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
> >     ‘version-control’ in this manner.
> 
> I don't think that's correct, though?  rmail-mode doesn't use file
> variables, it does:
> 
>   (setq-local version-control 'never)
> 
> So it doesn't set version-control "in this manner", as far as I can tell?

Fair enough.  How about

    The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
    file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
    ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
    making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
    packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
    ‘version-control’ this way.  You can also have Emacs set
    ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note File
    Variables::).

?

mike

bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

[Mike Kupfer]

Mike Kupfer wrote:

> How about
> 
>     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
>     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
>     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
>     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
>     packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
>     ‘version-control’ this way.  You can also have Emacs set
>     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note File
>     Variables::).

Or maybe put the last sentence in a separate paragraph?

mike

bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: 56291@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@alum.berkeley.edu>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 07:38:28 -0700
> 
> Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> 
> > Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@alum.berkeley.edu> writes:
> > >     Some packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
> > >     ‘version-control’ in this manner.
> > 
> > I don't think that's correct, though?  rmail-mode doesn't use file
> > variables, it does:
> > 
> >   (setq-local version-control 'never)
> > 
> > So it doesn't set version-control "in this manner", as far as I can tell?
> 
> Fair enough.  How about
> 
>     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
>     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
>     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
>     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
>     packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
>     ‘version-control’ this way.  You can also have Emacs set
>     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note File
>     Variables::).
> 
> ?

The point of the example is to illustrate the local setting of the
variable, so talking about packages that set the global value misses
the point, and shouldn't be there.  If Rmail is a bad example, then we
should find a better one, and mention only those.

bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

[Mike Kupfer]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> > Cc: 56291@debbugs.gnu.org
> > From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@alum.berkeley.edu>
> > Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 07:38:28 -0700
> > 
> > Fair enough.  How about
> > 
> >     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
> >     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
> >     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
> >     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
> >     packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
> >     ‘version-control’ this way.  You can also have Emacs set
> >     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note File
> >     Variables::).
> > 
> > ?
> 
> The point of the example is to illustrate the local setting of the
> variable, so talking about packages that set the global value misses
> the point, and shouldn't be there.  If Rmail is a bad example, then we
> should find a better one, and mention only those.

Okay, I guess "override the global setting" is too confusing.  Rmail
only sets it locally.  Does this work better:

    The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
    file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
    ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
    making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
    packages, such as Rmail, do this.  You can also have Emacs set
    ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note
    File Variables::).

?

mike

bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@alum.berkeley.edu>
> cc: larsi@gnus.org, 56291@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 09:17:35 -0700
> 
>     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
>     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
>     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
>     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
>     packages, such as Rmail, do this.  You can also have Emacs set
>     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note
>     File Variables::).

SGTM, thanks.

bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>>     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
>>     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
>>     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
>>     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
>>     packages, such as Rmail, do this.  You can also have Emacs set
>>     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note
>>     File Variables::).
>
> SGTM, thanks.

Now pushed to Emacs 29.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no