From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcmVhcyBSw7ZobGVy?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Yet another discussion on improving the first time user experience Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:03:30 +0200 Message-ID: <523FD9B2.9030304@online.de> References: <523ED74D.4030205@online.de> <87ioxs4zc9.fsf@informatimago.com> <87k3i8vj93.fsf@yandex.ru> <83bo3kk6hh.fsf@gnu.org> <87eh8gzee5.fsf@yandex.ru> <871u4go1bp.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1379916104 4532 80.91.229.3 (23 Sep 2013 06:01:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 06:01:44 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 23 08:01:45 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VNzDN-0004wZ-1B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:01:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37748 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNzDM-0005pa-3T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 02:01:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45982) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNzDC-0005pG-Hk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 02:01:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNzD5-0008AE-5c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 02:01:34 -0400 Original-Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.9]:61453) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNzD4-0008A0-SE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 02:01:27 -0400 Original-Received: from purzel.sitgens (brln-4dba5cf6.pool.mediaWays.net [77.186.92.246]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LwSjL-1VxGdX3O75-018Mwv; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 08:01:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:cLZ4LgtY0BhOcA0fqD0F0TLmhODUDspZfWxw9XJDn+L c4be+FzYEqWD3hq7b0oGj+N+3qxqHGoDafbWZBcS0iPAJCn43o n7+iE+uCA2wCL4Rt4No6k6g3Dcr+9BsjGOwFI5o7uJOOFEH6ee n+Y97QhlOzYYbswFZu3sMTE1SBzlmFPa/IUT6o940XNAuqSp4p 4784reelps9UbXU/aZ4rLfEQ6+6k+WCGf0eVorNRxy8hZVaWs7 fra7DuqhDvexdEN+xItin6rDN9Z5ZlIyRUr3ZnEG4JY2rGFC1z GJkJzr+l72uT3UCD5KNNBvwPwbj/vLrd87hy+3E4sZ6QlBVeHe Mo/unt+GlZMXxPZgrv2Q= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.17.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:163563 Archived-At: Am 23.09.2013 02:18, schrieb Lennart Borgman: > The tutorial kind of throws other keybindings than the arrow keys on the > new user. Kind of patronizing if someone asks me. ;-) Putting users first attention at that kind of matter, it also spreads a quit unjust and wrong impression WRT Emacs and it's people. That tutorial probably was okay twenty years ago. No it reads as vim's ":q" is envied, proving emacs can make it difficult too.