From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?windows-1252?Q?Andreas_R=F6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Yet another discussion on improving the first time user experience Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 13:41:01 +0200 Message-ID: <523ED74D.4030205@online.de> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1379849949 29260 80.91.229.3 (22 Sep 2013 11:39:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 11:39:09 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 22 13:39:13 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VNi0P-0002vu-J6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 13:39:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34794 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNi0P-0001Yf-7G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 07:39:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48002) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNi0H-0001XT-RN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 07:39:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNi0C-0007qN-Gy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 07:39:05 -0400 Original-Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.9]:62064) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNi0C-0007q7-5v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 07:39:00 -0400 Original-Received: from purzel.sitgens (brln-4d0c7393.pool.mediaWays.net [77.12.115.147]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrbap4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MdLEp-1Vexjm3hB5-00IWDk; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 13:38:58 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:Bn+1V5favSrPfKyqRDb+dnbma/v12mVQKah9tZYYy5B EiWlJi6J5J4coV2KMAxQFILEqHULJ4HH5D/dahpsuT60CMflQ+ aikcYCa+CdNELY6VQI+L57mpRk1vPIUL3Yc0wv29xJk1gGuGGc kKovx0lv+kvotWT1zXwE4Dy5G0xDtwAUyTB9spFq+ytX+LtIrA qHts/z/8BjuzO3X6APB4Ka1EIXc25mXAhtEA24kRPkkg5R2QYf ++ZOASo23gS9RFaBN8lVGdp7qo1TekDXDyLNk9RJymmEXAilTm 9ia2weBvQiKpTM7TEU7ikdfzAQzBeyFONSmg4+qmopT8ZZZ+bx vLRZT7ofvUmkfLP2bJd4= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.17.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:163548 Archived-At: Am 22.09.2013 08:18, schrieb JMorte: > On reddit: > > http://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/1mt8a5/ > nearly_everyone_who_is_new_to_emacs_hates_it/ > > > Thanks. Below some extracts from this source considered helpful: I found my way to Emacs after having spent some time with Sublime Text 2. It took me a good bit of perseverance and several sallies at Emacs before I was finally able to find my footing. I should note that this difficulty was in spite of my already having a basic familiarity with Scheme (enough to make sense of simple init file hackery) and already being someone who spends countless hours seeking out and implementing tiny customizations (e.g., Stylish, Pentadactyle, Quicksilver, KeyRemap4MakBook––caps lock to ctrl! right shift to forward delete! space+j,k,l,i to arrows!––and a few other utilities of that sort). Of course, my fiddling is small-time dabbling compared to proper optimizers, but the fact that an interested, reasonably capable person such as myself was put off of Emacs 4 or 5 times before finally finding my groove should count as evidence for your premise. [ ... ] The most formidable barrier I encountered when trying to pick up Emacs was simply the keyboard navigation. I have been cultivating a repertoire of key-chording for fifteen years or so, and virtually none of my habituated cords translate into the default Emacs bindings. When I first opened up the editor and tried to start using it a bit, I felt hobbled and constrained. I am 100% sold on the theoretical and practical virtues of Emacs, but I think it's a serious flaw that the software doesn't lend itself to effective use as a basic text editor straight out of the box. Really, why should I have to read a tutorial that forces me to use strange and awkward key-bindings just to figure out how to move the cursor around the screen effectively and scroll the window?! Since Emacs' essential strength lies in its extensibility, I think its built-in intro should instead start by offering up a menu of common key binding schemas.