org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

[Oleh]

Hi all,

I've recently started using `org-use-speed-commands', and I like it a lot,
except I had to make one tweak:

    (setq org-use-speed-commands t)
    (setq org-speed-commands-user
          '(("1" . (org-shifttab 1))
            ("2" . (org-shifttab 2))
            ("3" . (org-shifttab 3))))

The corresponding values of `org-speed-commands-default' aren't that useful
for GTD:

    ("1" org-priority 65)
    ("2" org-priority 66)
    ("3" org-priority 67)

I'd suggest to change the default behavior to `org-shifttab'.
I don't know if people want this, but I like to just put the idea out there.
As an extra plus, it's similar to magit shortcuts.

regards,
Oleh

Re: org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

[Carsten Dominik]

On 23.7.2013, at 15:48, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I've recently started using `org-use-speed-commands', and I like it a lot,
> except I had to make one tweak:
> 
>    (setq org-use-speed-commands t)
>    (setq org-speed-commands-user
>          '(("1" . (org-shifttab 1))
>            ("2" . (org-shifttab 2))
>            ("3" . (org-shifttab 3))))
> 
> The corresponding values of `org-speed-commands-default' aren't that useful
> for GTD:
> 
>    ("1" org-priority 65)
>    ("2" org-priority 66)
>    ("3" org-priority 67)

That depends on wether you work with priorities.  I find S-TAB easy enough, so I do not
really see the need for speed commands here.

- Carsten

> 
> I'd suggest to change the default behavior to `org-shifttab'.
> I don't know if people want this, but I like to just put the idea out there.
> As an extra plus, it's similar to magit shortcuts.
> 
> regards,
> Oleh
> 

Re: org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

[Oleh]

On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Carsten Dominik
<carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 23.7.2013, at 15:48, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've recently started using `org-use-speed-commands', and I like it a lot,
>> except I had to make one tweak:
>>
>>    (setq org-use-speed-commands t)
>>    (setq org-speed-commands-user
>>          '(("1" . (org-shifttab 1))
>>            ("2" . (org-shifttab 2))
>>            ("3" . (org-shifttab 3))))
>>
>> The corresponding values of `org-speed-commands-default' aren't that useful
>> for GTD:
>>
>>    ("1" org-priority 65)
>>    ("2" org-priority 66)
>>    ("3" org-priority 67)
>
> That depends on wether you work with priorities.  I find S-TAB easy enough, so I do not
> really see the need for speed commands here.

Maybe I should elaborate my point of view on the usability.
Priorities don't normally need "buttons" to jump between states,
a "knob" is enough: only increase/decrease priority, not jump to priority 1,
jump to priority 2 etc.

Outlines, on the other hand, can benefit from the ability to jump between
the levels of expansion.

Level 1 is very useful - it minimizes everything, showing the
structure of the file. S-TAB is useful and simple, but you have to
repeat several times,
checking each time if it has brought you to the level that you wanted to be on.

Level 2 is very useful - and cannot, unlike Level 1, be reached by S-TAB.
For my gtd.org, it shows the tasks and appointments, without expanding
them, as well as the project names, but not what they contain.
This gives a nice overview of my projects.

Level 3 is very useful - and cannot be reached by S-TAB.
It shows me the separate TODOs for my projects, without revealing my
notes on them, just the headings.
I even bound the rest of the digits to levels and it is useful sometimes.

In my opinion, these shortcuts make org-mode a better outlining tool,
and should be given priority before the priority shortcuts.

Slightly off-topic, these type of shortcuts is why I use Ubuntu Unity (I think
I managed to turn off the spying). It's got a feature that Super+1-9
switches between applications in the sidebar slots 1-9. Sure, it's
possible to do with Alt-TAB, and that's what most other desktops do,
but Super+1-9 is superior, since you don't have to wait for feedback,
you instantly get what you want.

regards,
Oleh

Re: org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi Oleh,

you have good arguments - but I still think this is a matter of workflow and preferences, so I am not going to change the defaults.  This is what we have user options for.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss is, and sorry for the slow reply.

- Carsten

On 8.8.2013, at 15:02, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Carsten Dominik
> <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 23.7.2013, at 15:48, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I've recently started using `org-use-speed-commands', and I like it a lot,
>>> except I had to make one tweak:
>>> 
>>>   (setq org-use-speed-commands t)
>>>   (setq org-speed-commands-user
>>>         '(("1" . (org-shifttab 1))
>>>           ("2" . (org-shifttab 2))
>>>           ("3" . (org-shifttab 3))))
>>> 
>>> The corresponding values of `org-speed-commands-default' aren't that useful
>>> for GTD:
>>> 
>>>   ("1" org-priority 65)
>>>   ("2" org-priority 66)
>>>   ("3" org-priority 67)
>> 
>> That depends on wether you work with priorities.  I find S-TAB easy enough, so I do not
>> really see the need for speed commands here.
> 
> Maybe I should elaborate my point of view on the usability.
> Priorities don't normally need "buttons" to jump between states,
> a "knob" is enough: only increase/decrease priority, not jump to priority 1,
> jump to priority 2 etc.
> 
> Outlines, on the other hand, can benefit from the ability to jump between
> the levels of expansion.
> 
> Level 1 is very useful - it minimizes everything, showing the
> structure of the file. S-TAB is useful and simple, but you have to
> repeat several times,
> checking each time if it has brought you to the level that you wanted to be on.
> 
> Level 2 is very useful - and cannot, unlike Level 1, be reached by S-TAB.
> For my gtd.org, it shows the tasks and appointments, without expanding
> them, as well as the project names, but not what they contain.
> This gives a nice overview of my projects.
> 
> Level 3 is very useful - and cannot be reached by S-TAB.
> It shows me the separate TODOs for my projects, without revealing my
> notes on them, just the headings.
> I even bound the rest of the digits to levels and it is useful sometimes.
> 
> In my opinion, these shortcuts make org-mode a better outlining tool,
> and should be given priority before the priority shortcuts.
> 
> Slightly off-topic, these type of shortcuts is why I use Ubuntu Unity (I think
> I managed to turn off the spying). It's got a feature that Super+1-9
> switches between applications in the sidebar slots 1-9. Sure, it's
> possible to do with Alt-TAB, and that's what most other desktops do,
> but Super+1-9 is superior, since you don't have to wait for feedback,
> you instantly get what you want.
> 
> regards,
> Oleh

Re: org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

[Tom Davey]

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Olen writes:

> Level 2 is very useful - and cannot, unlike Level 1, be reached by S-TAB.

Actually, it can. S-TAB takes a numeric prefix key. The doc string says:

"When ARG is a numeric prefix, show contents of this level."

So, you can directly open or close the outline to _any_ desired level "N"
with C-N S-TAB. I find that feature to be incredibly handy. It encourages
me to nest my outlines as deeply as I wish.

Here's a little navigation utility I wrote to take advantage of S-TAB's
ability. Sometimes I'll want to collapse the outline to the level at point
in order, say, to clean things up by closing all lower levels. However,
it's not always obvious to me what level I'm on. And without knowing what
level I'm on, I can't hit the right numeric prefix for S-TAB. The following
utility does it all automagically by passing the result of
org-outline-level() to S-TAB. C-S-TAB is a logical binding for this
function.

(defun open-org-outline-to-current-level ()
  "Opens or closes the Orgmode outline to the level at point."
   (interactive)
   (org-shifttab (org-outline-level))
   (message "The current outline level is %s." (org-outline-level)))

Regards,
Tom Davey



On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Carsten Dominik
> <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 23.7.2013, at 15:48, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I've recently started using `org-use-speed-commands', and I like it a
> lot,
> >> except I had to make one tweak:
> >>
> >>    (setq org-use-speed-commands t)
> >>    (setq org-speed-commands-user
> >>          '(("1" . (org-shifttab 1))
> >>            ("2" . (org-shifttab 2))
> >>            ("3" . (org-shifttab 3))))
> >>
> >> The corresponding values of `org-speed-commands-default' aren't that
> useful
> >> for GTD:
> >>
> >>    ("1" org-priority 65)
> >>    ("2" org-priority 66)
> >>    ("3" org-priority 67)
> >
> > That depends on wether you work with priorities.  I find S-TAB easy
> enough, so I do not
> > really see the need for speed commands here.
>
> Maybe I should elaborate my point of view on the usability.
> Priorities don't normally need "buttons" to jump between states,
> a "knob" is enough: only increase/decrease priority, not jump to priority
> 1,
> jump to priority 2 etc.
>
> Outlines, on the other hand, can benefit from the ability to jump between
> the levels of expansion.
>
> Level 1 is very useful - it minimizes everything, showing the
> structure of the file. S-TAB is useful and simple, but you have to
> repeat several times,
> checking each time if it has brought you to the level that you wanted to
> be on.
>
> Level 2 is very useful - and cannot, unlike Level 1, be reached by S-TAB.
> For my gtd.org, it shows the tasks and appointments, without expanding
> them, as well as the project names, but not what they contain.
> This gives a nice overview of my projects.
>
> Level 3 is very useful - and cannot be reached by S-TAB.
> It shows me the separate TODOs for my projects, without revealing my
> notes on them, just the headings.
> I even bound the rest of the digits to levels and it is useful sometimes.
>
> In my opinion, these shortcuts make org-mode a better outlining tool,
> and should be given priority before the priority shortcuts.
>
> Slightly off-topic, these type of shortcuts is why I use Ubuntu Unity (I
> think
> I managed to turn off the spying). It's got a feature that Super+1-9
> switches between applications in the sidebar slots 1-9. Sure, it's
> possible to do with Alt-TAB, and that's what most other desktops do,
> but Super+1-9 is superior, since you don't have to wait for feedback,
> you instantly get what you want.
>
> regards,
> Oleh
>
>


-- 
--
Tom Davey
tom@tomdavey.com
New York NY USA

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Re: org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

[Rainer Stengele]

Am 03.09.2013 00:35, schrieb Tom Davey:
> Olen writes:
> 
>> Level 2 is very useful - and cannot, unlike Level 1, be reached by S-TAB.
> 
> Actually, it can. S-TAB takes a numeric prefix key. The doc string says:
> 
> "When ARG is a numeric prefix, show contents of this level."
> 
> So, you can directly open or close the outline to _any_ desired level "N" with C-N S-TAB. I find that feature to be incredibly handy. It encourages me to nest my outlines as deeply
> as I wish.
> 
> Here's a little navigation utility I wrote to take advantage of S-TAB's ability. Sometimes I'll want to collapse the outline to the level at point in order, say, to clean things up
> by closing all lower levels. However, it's not always obvious to me what level I'm on. And without knowing what level I'm on, I can't hit the right numeric prefix for S-TAB. The
> following utility does it all automagically by passing the result of org-outline-level() to S-TAB. C-S-TAB is a logical binding for this function.
> 
> (defun open-org-outline-to-current-level ()
>   "Opens or closes the Orgmode outline to the level at point."
>    (interactive)
>    (org-shifttab (org-outline-level))
>    (message "The current outline level is %s." (org-outline-level)))
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Davey
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com <mailto:ohwoeowho@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Carsten Dominik
>     <carsten.dominik@gmail.com <mailto:carsten.dominik@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     > On 23.7.2013, at 15:48, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com <mailto:ohwoeowho@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     >> Hi all,
>     >>
>     >> I've recently started using `org-use-speed-commands', and I like it a lot,
>     >> except I had to make one tweak:
>     >>
>     >>    (setq org-use-speed-commands t)
>     >>    (setq org-speed-commands-user
>     >>          '(("1" . (org-shifttab 1))
>     >>            ("2" . (org-shifttab 2))
>     >>            ("3" . (org-shifttab 3))))
>     >>
>     >> The corresponding values of `org-speed-commands-default' aren't that useful
>     >> for GTD:
>     >>
>     >>    ("1" org-priority 65)
>     >>    ("2" org-priority 66)
>     >>    ("3" org-priority 67)
>     >
>     > That depends on wether you work with priorities.  I find S-TAB easy enough, so I do not
>     > really see the need for speed commands here.
> 
>     Maybe I should elaborate my point of view on the usability.
>     Priorities don't normally need "buttons" to jump between states,
>     a "knob" is enough: only increase/decrease priority, not jump to priority 1,
>     jump to priority 2 etc.
> 
>     Outlines, on the other hand, can benefit from the ability to jump between
>     the levels of expansion.
> 
>     Level 1 is very useful - it minimizes everything, showing the
>     structure of the file. S-TAB is useful and simple, but you have to
>     repeat several times,
>     checking each time if it has brought you to the level that you wanted to be on.
> 
>     Level 2 is very useful - and cannot, unlike Level 1, be reached by S-TAB.
>     For my gtd.org <http://gtd.org>, it shows the tasks and appointments, without expanding
>     them, as well as the project names, but not what they contain.
>     This gives a nice overview of my projects.
> 
>     Level 3 is very useful - and cannot be reached by S-TAB.
>     It shows me the separate TODOs for my projects, without revealing my
>     notes on them, just the headings.
>     I even bound the rest of the digits to levels and it is useful sometimes.
> 
>     In my opinion, these shortcuts make org-mode a better outlining tool,
>     and should be given priority before the priority shortcuts.
> 
>     Slightly off-topic, these type of shortcuts is why I use Ubuntu Unity (I think
>     I managed to turn off the spying). It's got a feature that Super+1-9
>     switches between applications in the sidebar slots 1-9. Sure, it's
>     possible to do with Alt-TAB, and that's what most other desktops do,
>     but Super+1-9 is superior, since you don't have to wait for feedback,
>     you instantly get what you want.
> 
>     regards,
>     Oleh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> Tom Davey
> tom@tomdavey.com <mailto:tom@tomdavey.com>
> New York NY USA

"collapse the outline to the level at point" seems helpful to me!
Using "0" as speed key I end up with:

;; Outline level durch speedcommand setzen
;; "0": collapse the outline to the level at point
(setq org-use-speed-commands t)
(setq org-speed-commands-user
      '(("0" . (org-shifttab (org-outline-level)))
	("1" . (org-shifttab 1))
	("2" . (org-shifttab 2))
	("3" . (org-shifttab 3))
	("4" . (org-shifttab 4))
	("5" . (org-shifttab 5))))

Thanks!
Rainer

Re: org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

[Oleh]

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Thanks, Tom.

I see that indeed the functionality is there.
But I still find the speed keys much less awkward than
giving a numeric argument.
For instance, my gtd file as around 100 level 2 headings that I wish to
navigate
and they are grouped across 5 level 1 headings.
I can jump from the middle of one group to another with
"1hh2n".
With numeric arguments this would be:
"C-1 S-TAB C-p C-p C-2 S-TAB C-n".
With speed bindings, I'm not even moving my fingers - I just have
the left hand on "123" and the right hand on "hn".
Anyway, to each his own:)

regards,
Oleh




On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Tom Davey <tdavey@gmail.com> wrote:

> Olen writes:
>
> > Level 2 is very useful - and cannot, unlike Level 1, be reached by S-TAB.
>
> Actually, it can. S-TAB takes a numeric prefix key. The doc string says:
>
> "When ARG is a numeric prefix, show contents of this level."
>
> So, you can directly open or close the outline to _any_ desired level "N"
> with C-N S-TAB. I find that feature to be incredibly handy. It encourages
> me to nest my outlines as deeply as I wish.
>
> Here's a little navigation utility I wrote to take advantage of S-TAB's
> ability. Sometimes I'll want to collapse the outline to the level at point
> in order, say, to clean things up by closing all lower levels. However,
> it's not always obvious to me what level I'm on. And without knowing what
> level I'm on, I can't hit the right numeric prefix for S-TAB. The following
> utility does it all automagically by passing the result of
> org-outline-level() to S-TAB. C-S-TAB is a logical binding for this
> function.
>
> (defun open-org-outline-to-current-level ()
>   "Opens or closes the Orgmode outline to the level at point."
>    (interactive)
>    (org-shifttab (org-outline-level))
>    (message "The current outline level is %s." (org-outline-level)))
>
> Regards,
> Tom Davey
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Carsten Dominik
>> <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > On 23.7.2013, at 15:48, Oleh <ohwoeowho@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I've recently started using `org-use-speed-commands', and I like it a
>> lot,
>> >> except I had to make one tweak:
>> >>
>> >>    (setq org-use-speed-commands t)
>> >>    (setq org-speed-commands-user
>> >>          '(("1" . (org-shifttab 1))
>> >>            ("2" . (org-shifttab 2))
>> >>            ("3" . (org-shifttab 3))))
>> >>
>> >> The corresponding values of `org-speed-commands-default' aren't that
>> useful
>> >> for GTD:
>> >>
>> >>    ("1" org-priority 65)
>> >>    ("2" org-priority 66)
>> >>    ("3" org-priority 67)
>> >
>> > That depends on wether you work with priorities.  I find S-TAB easy
>> enough, so I do not
>> > really see the need for speed commands here.
>>
>> Maybe I should elaborate my point of view on the usability.
>> Priorities don't normally need "buttons" to jump between states,
>> a "knob" is enough: only increase/decrease priority, not jump to priority
>> 1,
>> jump to priority 2 etc.
>>
>> Outlines, on the other hand, can benefit from the ability to jump between
>> the levels of expansion.
>>
>> Level 1 is very useful - it minimizes everything, showing the
>> structure of the file. S-TAB is useful and simple, but you have to
>> repeat several times,
>> checking each time if it has brought you to the level that you wanted to
>> be on.
>>
>> Level 2 is very useful - and cannot, unlike Level 1, be reached by S-TAB.
>> For my gtd.org, it shows the tasks and appointments, without expanding
>> them, as well as the project names, but not what they contain.
>> This gives a nice overview of my projects.
>>
>> Level 3 is very useful - and cannot be reached by S-TAB.
>> It shows me the separate TODOs for my projects, without revealing my
>> notes on them, just the headings.
>> I even bound the rest of the digits to levels and it is useful sometimes.
>>
>> In my opinion, these shortcuts make org-mode a better outlining tool,
>> and should be given priority before the priority shortcuts.
>>
>> Slightly off-topic, these type of shortcuts is why I use Ubuntu Unity (I
>> think
>> I managed to turn off the spying). It's got a feature that Super+1-9
>> switches between applications in the sidebar slots 1-9. Sure, it's
>> possible to do with Alt-TAB, and that's what most other desktops do,
>> but Super+1-9 is superior, since you don't have to wait for feedback,
>> you instantly get what you want.
>>
>> regards,
>> Oleh
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Tom Davey
> tom@tomdavey.com
> New York NY USA
>

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Re: org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

[Tom Davey]

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Rainer writes:

> Using "0" as speed key I end up with:

That's lovely! I hadn't thought of using a user-defined speed key. Much
more convenient.

Regards,
Tom Davey

--
Tom Davey
tom@tomdavey.com
New York NY USA

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Re: org-speed-commands-default 1 2 3

[Suvayu Ali]

Hey Oleh,

On Mon, Sep 02, 2013 at 07:54:14AM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> 
> you have good arguments - but I still think this is a matter of
> workflow and preferences, so I am not going to change the defaults.
> This is what we have user options for.

I think this would be a great addition to Worg.  Would you be willing to
write something up?  Just a few points on the workflow and the relevant
setup lines users can include in their setup would do.  I think it would
fit in well here:

  <http://orgmode.org/worg/org-configs/org-config-examples.html>

If you do not have commit access to Worg, you can get it by sending your
public SSH key to Matt or Bastien.  See here:

  <http://orgmode.org/worg/worg-maintainance.html>

If you are hesitant on making the commit yourself, you could post the
write-up on the list, either me or someone else would be happy to make
the commit for you.

Cheers,

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.