From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: request to revert the chnage of revno 112925 Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:15:36 -0700 Message-ID: <51C21F78.2040307@cs.ucla.edu> References: <51C1D83E.7020501@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1371676559 28962 80.91.229.3 (19 Jun 2013 21:15:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:15:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Kenichi Handa , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 19 23:15:59 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UpPjR-00073v-Ds for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:15:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47115 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UpPjQ-0002Td-OH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:15:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46233) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UpPjG-0002Rq-A5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:15:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UpPjE-0001AY-Jh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:15:45 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:52014) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UpPjE-00019X-9o; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:15:44 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4456A39E8105; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:15:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KMMbJ2GYzAdP; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from penguin.cs.ucla.edu (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CC64439E8100; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:15:36 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130514 Thunderbird/17.0.6 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.62 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:160706 Archived-At: On 06/19/13 13:49, Stefan Monnier wrote: > This is not specific to Elisp, of course, it's true of most programming > languages Yes, that sounds right. Should we make this change for all programming-language files then? .c, .h, Makefile, etc.... > The POSIX world doesn't care too much about labeling files as > text-vs-binary except when it's really useful (e.g. to try and avoid > spewing crap in the output of grep). True, but in practice this means one should avoid putting NUL bytes in such files. grep uses a heuristic that if a file contains a NUL byte, it's considered to be a binary file, and by default grep won't output the matching lines for that file. POSIX allows this behavior, and it's common among many GNU and/or POSIX tools, which means it's typically not a good idea to put NUL bytes in source files. Emacs of course can treat a NUL character just like any other character. But the issue of UTF-8 versus other encodings is largely independent of what Emacs does with NUL characters. It may be better to leave the treatment of NUL characters alone when making the UTF-8 change, if only to do changes one at a time. (Can you tell that I use grep a lot? Sometimes I think it's my favorite software tool....)