From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Reverting but keeping undo Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 21:51:14 +0400 Message-ID: <51A64012.6080707@yandex.ru> References: <87mwrwede7.fsf@wanadoo.es> <8738t6tqie.fsf@yandex.ru> <92f42e8d-b6a8-4f2e-bd1d-c717f1ea9dd0@default> <51A5F3F8.3070300@yandex.ru> <93506dfd-1e77-4dec-acad-82872f9bc428@default> <51A61D01.8070904@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1369849913 25092 80.91.229.3 (29 May 2013 17:51:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 17:51:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 29 19:51:53 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UhkXP-0001C4-Sn for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 May 2013 19:51:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36050 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhkXP-0001de-CI for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 May 2013 13:51:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35090) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhkX2-0001Z7-GP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 May 2013 13:51:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhkWr-0002RG-B3 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 May 2013 13:51:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-la0-x22f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::22f]:50027) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UhkWr-0002Qw-3G for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 May 2013 13:51:17 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-la0-f47.google.com with SMTP id fq12so8809549lab.6 for ; Wed, 29 May 2013 10:51:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-antivirus:x-antivirus-status; bh=9nIOKFxAMAZAHH8TmAVb17VBtatVknsVtQq2kRCZ6Kc=; b=ehjn/JJeMwbKtv3mKgC1BMLoaFx4cC9s/vk3IsCus5LQP+6aAaqp7heqz6SBFWKMhO Y2gPWD0uM1SgUTVTqkV3zMDdFS6IaCPexFkbEeB6w6goYTelM4zeoV7xPCpNS5JpGDi0 YuCEivkCkIHmCf/V06csz6lGSXGOwlVmszIVpsfpeC1LKGg3pKbSCgSaZTapw29aKR3E Kc3hJSlbGI2/CaiFGutR9NR+lIi3B+4x+W+9RwIpqTjr/Mqd1KzRywjGiXddmGoIVY/H 8j+VGwsSNjlbh7JgQDFLKz66z5wDY0Mc+tep24HY53Tfx10EgCIMYrCfydoJwxt8ZLwz UXuA== X-Received: by 10.112.154.35 with SMTP id vl3mr2135967lbb.55.1369849875719; Wed, 29 May 2013 10:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([178.252.98.87]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p6sm6588990lbv.15.2013.05.29.10.51.13 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 29 May 2013 10:51:14 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 130529-0, 29.05.2013), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22f X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:91145 Archived-At: On 29.05.2013 20:33, Drew Adams wrote: >>> And it is not a discusson on emacs-devel by Emacs developers. >> >> Again, are you an Emacs developer? You aren't. What do you care? > > That remark bespeaks an arrogant attitude toward Emacs users. Again, you're missing the point. It's meaningless for you to complain that there was no discussion by Emacs developers. If any of the developers feel that it should be discussed, they can say that themselves. >> So, a hypothetical new variable would revert the behavior to how it were >> before, but setting a new variable isn't too different from advising >> `revert-buffer', from a user's perspective. > > It's a lot different. You should know that. Not really, in this case. Undo list is a technical detail, and the advice facility is meant for technical users. That's just my opinion, though. > No, I don't assume any of that. I just think this should have been proposed > for discussion on the dev list, so we might hear from people with different > uses and more knowledge (than I have, at least). Do you think they're too shy to speak up now? > Well, FWIW, I happen to like it too, for my personal interactive use. > And FWIW I have been using it for quite a while now. Surprised? Not at all. That's exactly my point. You like it, you don't know anyone how doesn't, yet you still think people are doing things wrong. > I asked why. Your answer was that this is an unimportant, uncontroversial > change not worth remarking or discussing. To you, discussion of this > would be bikeshedding. I am not so sure as you. The discussion would have been important if anyone had some important practical points to bring up. Which, again, you haven't.