From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13775: 24.3.50; Omissions in documentation for crash reporting Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 05:31:55 +0400 Message-ID: <5126CA8B.6040705@yandex.ru> References: <87bobei0tx.fsf@yandex.ru> <837gm1oa18.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1361496770 9732 80.91.229.3 (22 Feb 2013 01:32:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:32:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 13775@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 22 02:33:11 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1U8hVe-00078b-Nv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:33:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40676 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8hVK-0004eN-8M for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:32:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53552) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8hVF-0004e6-NV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:32:48 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8hVC-0006YF-Ts for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:32:45 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:37817) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8hVC-0006YA-Pw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:32:42 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8hWT-0002ZL-Md for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:34:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13775 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 13775-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13775.13614967979820 (code B ref 13775); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:34:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2013 01:33:17 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43281 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8hVk-0002YK-HK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:33:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lb0-f172.google.com ([209.85.217.172]:33833) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8hVh-0002Y9-CJ for 13775@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:33:14 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lb0-f172.google.com with SMTP id n8so203820lbj.17 for <13775@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:31:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JisOTfbxQoQicfLW6acTsUgifXLsga6+dr6UmLglQag=; b=S7e5DIF6gSwmAg/rzmyWzeGUuJ443Tkn8XYeiFNvYwH8STSg0Mpb1+0dMljbNx9uGf wizbOKxLHNY9/SJpKoCmpSvLmK2LJ4ytnYAFZykf7mTI7oXXe1n++wZFT6JW2aZJD0Uk NkqDn+1nOQTl9624TtNmRKT0lD6iKAfsLKF5WVOLzqFqMyEoZR++OwysyyfOlUQyWgmR bi6zCgDehpi48fM+frjMBaywrInCtccM1hRrG/9vPg5CKa+Ph5++3wKKQJ9BLdS3HAzn AVgPIx/wV35cEotLSbmdpzVf5Ecsfz6YbMXCPzgLMLVK+1C5672VU9WpjvDSxY9fP262 20uw== X-Received: by 10.112.103.168 with SMTP id fx8mr302958lbb.32.1361496712923; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:31:52 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([178.252.98.87]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id xw14sm231343lab.6.2013.02.21.17.31.50 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:31:51 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 In-Reply-To: <837gm1oa18.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:71614 Archived-At: On 21.02.2013 21:24, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I'm not sure your expectations can be met with any reasonable effort. If you think that these complaints are not particularly important, feel free to close the bug. Obviously, I've solved all items here for myself already. > There's no way we can teach everybody the basics of GNU-style > configure scripts, including how to discover the available switches > and override compiler and linker options. You need to learn that\ If by discovering switches you mean calling ./configure --help, then it wasn't my problem. I've missed the --enable-checking switch, but that was later. The ./configure --help output tells how to override switches in general, my complaint is about insufficient detail. Is the "Some influential environment variables" part provided by autoconf or somesuch? I haven't seen this specific message before. > elsewhere. In general, if you cannot figure out how to do something, > just ask, and you _will_ be helped. Thanks, I don't doubt that. > Some answers below, because most of this info is available, you just > need to know how to find it. > >> 1. Calling `xbacktrace' requires src/.gdbinit to be loaded. It >> a) requires the user to run gdb exactly from src/ (not `gdb src/emacs'), > > The file etc/DEBUG tells you that at the beginning: > > ** When you debug Emacs with GDB, you should start it in the directory > where the executable was made. That directory has a .gdbinit file > that defines various "user-defined" commands for debugging Emacs. > (These commands are described below under "Examining Lisp object > values" and "Debugging Emacs Redisplay problems".) Um, yes, I read that. Maybe I should've skipped this part of the complaint. But is this exact wording ("the directory where the executable was made") important? If it just said "./src", that would be more obvious. >> b) requires them to modify the `auto-load safe-path', or that .gdbinit >> is ignored. > > This "feature" entered GDB only recently. Versions of GDB before 7.5 > don't need that, and will barf if you use this command. I don't see > any reasonable way of dealing with this without confusing newbies even > more (while veteran GDB users already know how to negotiate this > obstacle). If the feature isn't considered for removal, this argument will become less and less important over time. And the odds of a newbie being confused by safe-path will approach 100%. I'm not specifically asking to list the exact commands or ~/.gdbinit contents to work around safe-path. Maybe just mention the feature and, optionally, suggest consulting GDB manual, if that isn't obvious already? But specifying exactly what to do if GDB version is >= 7.5 would also work. >> 2. "Compile without optimizations" - how do I do that? `configure >> --help' doesn't seem to show any pertinent options. ...but wait, it says >> I can override the choices made by the script. > > Yes, it says near the end how to specify compiler switches. > >> a) Do I set the variable when calling `make', or do I have to re-run >> ./configure? Not obvious, the answer is "the latter". > > Actually, both will work. Not exactly. 'CFLAGS="-g3" ./configure' works. 'CFLAGS="-g3" make' doesn't. 'make CFLAGS="-g3"' does work, but AFAIK that's not the usual way of binding an environment variable value. >> b) I don't know the choice the script made, how do I not break >> anything by overriding it? > > You just need to know, or ask. It is not reasonable to expect Emacs > documentation to repeat the entire compiler manual, or large portions > thereof. I think "compile without optimizations" or "compile for debugging" is a sufficiently common special case to warrant listing the recommended command somewhere in etc/DEBUG. That will take a few lines at the most. >> 3. In #13749 (which caused me to write this), Paul also suggests using >> -DENABLE_CHECKING. If I'm not mistaken, this variable isn't documented >> anywhere. > > As Andreas points out, this is in "./configure --help". Indeed, thanks for that.