From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: bug#10385: e binding in info-mode Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 15:00:16 -0800 Message-ID: <510B6963E364499BBAF14665874F1C83@us.oracle.com> References: <201112272237.pBRMbo8C022896@freefriends.org><62fwftxnbz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org><83fwfsoluz.fsf@gnu.org><871urckv7k.fsf@mail.jurta.org><962D35497CE84D16B1B5F7AA509BFB59@us.oracle.com><878vljchjo.fsf@mail.jurta.org><76BD385B7317495CAE8E5EBFE545A1BB@us.oracle.com><87d3av9khw.fsf@mail.jurta.org><87ipkn6poj.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <3D4EE65ECFA64F7C8CDEFF55A750E37C@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1326063643 16735 80.91.229.12 (8 Jan 2012 23:00:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 23:00:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 09 00:00:38 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rk1jC-0007FX-Cr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 09 Jan 2012 00:00:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47618 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rk1jB-0004eL-SZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 18:00:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:56410) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rk1j8-0004e5-E2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 18:00:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rk1j7-0004tR-8O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 18:00:34 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:58073) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rk1j5-0004t3-GU; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 18:00:31 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id q08N0Qgt026429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 8 Jan 2012 23:00:27 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q08N0PgS013003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 8 Jan 2012 23:00:26 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q08N0PvW006016; Sun, 8 Jan 2012 17:00:25 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.35.13) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 15:00:25 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AczOVbHz6OPvrUrYSsCqKFusL5ujGAAANkeg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4F0A200B.0053,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 141.146.126.227 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147492 Archived-At: > > I have considered Info-edit obsolete ever since we had Texinfo. > > If you don't tell the users that something is > deprecated/obsolete, then such interior consideration > doesn't mean much. > > We are not bureaucrats, we are developing software to be useful for > users and to give them freedom. We follow certain practical practices > because they are generally helpful, but they are not imposed by gods. I doubt anyone disagrees with that. Just how is it relevant here? The idea is to help Emacs users, including those writing Lisp code, by giving them a heads-up wrt Emacs Dev support/intentions. That, I presume, is the idea behind functions such as `make-obsolete(-variable)': to inform users about things that are considered obsolete. Your thinking for 30 years that something is obsolete, and keeping the thought to yourself, does not help users know that Emacs Development considers it so. Have you considered for the same 30 years, since introducing Texinfo, that the section of the `Info' manual that tells users how to write Info nodes by hand is also obsolete? If so, would it be bureaucratic to update that manual to reflect your judgment, assuming the Emacs maintainers felt the same? One need not be a bureaucrat or believe in gods to think that such communication can be helpful to users. Should we stop publishing NEWS because we are not bureaucrats?