From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ken Raeburn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Guile in Emacs (was: integer overflow) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 02:07:11 -0500 Message-ID: <50E85FF6-6558-4E21-83E6-8136E4B27E1F@raeburn.org> References: <4B8147A9.7030504@gmail.com> <87ljemdzxo.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4B83682D.5010804@gnu.org> <87vddmpw4s.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87hbp2fwoi.fsf@gnu.org> <87wrxrr4md.fsf@gnu.org> <3vsk8ecg6a.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <873a0euot4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <873a0cyv3r.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87aauiho3y.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <27DFC7C4-938A-4031-86C1-CCC5E5F8EF35@mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268141984 26480 80.91.229.12 (9 Mar 2010 13:39:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 13:39:44 +0000 (UTC) To: "emacs-devel@gnu.org discussions" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 09 14:39:40 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NozI7-0001VB-Ha for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:16:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41866 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NotXP-0006bd-21 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:07:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NotXJ-0006bY-OY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:07:25 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49576 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NotXH-0006bQ-R1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:07:24 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NotXG-0008U1-9H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:07:23 -0500 Original-Received: from splat.raeburn.org ([69.25.196.39]:42482 helo=raeburn.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NotX8-0008O5-97 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:07:22 -0500 Original-Received: from squish.raeburn.org (squish.raeburn.org [10.0.0.172]) by raeburn.org (8.14.3/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o2977BUR000848; Tue, 9 Mar 2010 02:07:11 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <27DFC7C4-938A-4031-86C1-CCC5E5F8EF35@mit.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121754 Archived-At: On Mar 8, 2010, at 13:42, Chad Brown wrote: > Ken Raeburn has done some work on Guile in Emacs, which might be = helpful. There's a (not super-current) status page here: >=20 > http://www.mit.edu/~raeburn/guilemacs/ Yeah, I haven't updated that in a while... > Summary: there is something runable, but it's certainly not finished. = There are some design questions that I think it's safe to say are still = in an `exploratory' phase. Yes, though I think many of the open questions can be put off until what = I might call "phase 2" ... where "phase 1" just deals with basic object = representations, allocation and GC, and keeps the current = single-threaded Lisp engine. I want that to be on solid footing before = pushing other stuff forward too much, if only so there's something to = show off. :-) So after "phase 1", I think it would be time to assess how well things = work. Is work in certain areas of Guile needed? (If so, go hack on = Guile a while and come back later.) Does it do some things better than = stock Emacs? Is it time to discuss whether it would be suitable for = integration into Emacs 24/25/26/whatever? What else needs to happen = first? > Ken has given some thought to threading (not a surprise if you know = Ken), but as of the middle of last year (the date on the status update), = I would characterize his progress as `thoughts and questions'. Yeah, threads bring up lots of interesting issues, and there's enough = stuff going on in this Guile project even without having to settle those = issues right away. (Even though my original impetus was wanting to do = work in Emacs while Gnus was crunching away on newsgroup data in the = same process!) Other people are already working on related projects = (Tom Tromey's work on the Emacs side, and Daniel Kraft and others = working on a Lisp reader for Guile) where some of the issues may get = hashed out. Though, I ought to be paying more attention to them.... I haven't made a lot of direct progress on the project since then. Some = amount of my effort has gone into indirectly-helpful sub-projects, like = making upstream Emacs work better without doing the unexec step, so that = I don't have to make Guile and everything it might link against = unexec-friendly, deal with shared libraries in unexec, make static = versions of Guile and N other libraries, etc. (Obviously we don't want = Emacs to take forever to start up for end users, but if we don't get = another solution for that from the Guile side, we can work on the unexec = bits later, and sidestepping that problem for now lets me focus on other = things.) Another one that's appeared on the radar is digging up Dave = Love's old work on making Emacs work with Boehm's GC library, which = Guile uses, and Emacs-with-Guile would wind up using as a result, but I = haven't even started with that one; currently I think I've just had = Emacs leak memory since Guile switched to libgc. (And then there's the new job, which is sucking up a lot of my time now. = Most of the work seems to get done in bursts every several years, when = I'm between jobs; then I get a job, or there's some VCS breakage, and = the work stops for a while.... I'm hoping to put more time in on it = soon, especially since Andy Wingo surprised me with a proposed timeline = for finishing this work in his Guile presentation at GHM '09, and I'd = like to meet it, but not by going jobless again. :-) Ken=