Re: Unuseful keybindings

[Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>]

On 23.12.2012 2:46, Drew Adams wrote:
>> Oh how I hate typing C-w in Firefox when trying to cut some
>> text from a form, and making the page disappear instead. Or
>> typing C-s and seeing the "save" dialog. I do like these
>> keybindings, though, so moving to cua-mode or etc is not
>> exactly an option.
>
> Me too.  And I mentioned `C-w' for about the same reason as you.

I probably would have been happier if somewhere around the beginning of 
time, Emacs chose the same keybindings for the basic editing operations 
that most of the other programs use now.

>> I don't think I'm going to use the new binding much, but I
>> totally support moving toward compatibility with other
>> programs, at least where there are no pre-existing keybindings.
>
> So you buy the argument that if there is no default binding for some key (ANY
> key), and someone uses it conventionally outside Emacs (for ANYthing), then
> Emacs should hurry to get on board and have the same binding by default.

"Conventionally" usually means that it's not "someone", but a lot of 
other programs. And yes, if the binding is unused, we might as well use it.

> Doesn't matter what the key is, other than it has no default binding?  Doesn't
> matter what the conventional binding does, assuming it is an action that can be
> done in Emacs?

I would buy an argument describing how the new binding doesn't work with 
existing Emacs bindings - like it's too similar to another one, or too 
hard to press after a command you usually want to prepend it with.

This is not the case here. The <f> buttons don't clash with anything 
physically or semantically, and most of them are still unused.

> So no need to discuss particular keys and actions any further - just bind them
> all following any conventions we can find outside Emacs?

Conventions found in GUI programs, especially text editors? Yes.
At least those that don't clash with existing commands and bindings.

Following conventions is good when you're switching during the course of 
the workday, and it's especially good for new users.

> Emacs development deserves better.
>
>> I think the resistance here can be explained by the correlation
>> between people who like to keep their Emacs fullscreen and
>> people who try to do everything in Emacs, and so don't care
>> about other programs (and their keybindings) as much.
>
> You think wrong.  At least regarding this person.
>
> My Emacs is as far from fullscreen as can be.  And I definitely do not try to do
> everything in Emacs - I do almost nothing in Emacs.  And I do care very much
> about other programs.  And I use other programs and their keybindings all the
> time.  And I too get bit by different bindings (but `f11' is not one of them!).
>
> What I am in favor of is for Emacs Dev to think.  And discuss.  And take
> seriously the different properties of particular keys and particular actions
> that keys might be bound to.  In the context of Emacs.

Discussions are good, but I don't think this particular deserves the 
amount of attention it got.

Do the existing bindings for <f10> and <f1-4> take the "properties" you 
mention seriously?