From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12215: CSET is unnecessarily confusing Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 17:17:41 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <503819A5.10908@cs.ucla.edu> References: <502D8A95.7060609@cs.ucla.edu> <5034511B.7010409@cs.ucla.edu> <50350A4C.5050103@cs.ucla.edu> <87fw7d3qan.fsf@gnu.org> <5037B7A6.5030202@cs.ucla.edu> <87zk5kjj4p.fsf@fleche.redhat.com> <5037C3E4.9000704@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1345853913 30554 80.91.229.3 (25 Aug 2012 00:18:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:18:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Tom Tromey , Chong Yidong , 12215@debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Antipov To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 25 02:18:33 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T5458-0001Ky-SG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2012 02:18:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55420 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T5457-0008FN-3U for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:18:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45266) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T5453-0008F7-R2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:18:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T5451-0001yo-Os for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:18:25 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:37978) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T5451-0001yk-LD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:18:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T545d-000777-R6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:19:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12215 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 12215-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12215.134585390427298 (code B ref 12215); Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:19:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12215) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2012 00:18:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47524 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T5451-00076E-Hf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:18:24 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.62]:35673) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T544x-000764-Sl for 12215@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:18:21 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFEBA60001; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 17:17:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sLpglCxTCLOo; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 17:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] (pool-108-23-119-2.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [108.23.119.2]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8E5FB39E800D; Fri, 24 Aug 2012 17:17:39 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120714 Thunderbird/14.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:63469 Archived-At: On 08/24/2012 02:12 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > I'm actually quite happy keeping xVAR accessor macros ... and xSET > setter macros ..., to make it easier to experiment on branches. Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. But still, currently the people who are actually doing those experiments (Dmitry, Tom) don't need these macros and don't particularly want them. And Chong is calling BVAR "horrible". And I too would rather avoid these macros absent a proven need for them. If there's anything that Dmitry's and Tom's experiences have shown, it's that speculative changes often don't pan out. We currently have a patch that will get rid of the setters and of the xVAR and xSET macros, reverting to the pre-23.3 coding style. With some more work, I can change this patch to keep the BVAR and KVAR macros, reverting it to the 24.2 coding style. With still more work I could introduce xSET macros (assuming we come up on a style for them), resulting in a new style. I'd like to avoid this extra work if possible, so how about this idea for moving forward? I'll install the abovementioned patch. If anyone actually needs the xVAR and/or xSET macros, I'll volunteer to do the tedious work to put them into the trunk. (This offer is good for one year or 10,000 edits, whichever comes first. :-) That way, if we don't need those macros I'll save some work, and if we do need them I won't cost myself any more work than I'd do under your proposal.