From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_R=F6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: moving in js Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 08:45:19 +0200 Message-ID: <5024ADFF.6090405@easy-emacs.de> References: <5021685A.2080408@easy-emacs.de> <5021FB1B.1070201@easy-emacs.de> <50234E6E.4060303@easy-emacs.de> <5023E330.8070205@easy-emacs.de> <5023F124.50900@easy-emacs.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1344581148 23998 80.91.229.3 (10 Aug 2012 06:45:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 06:45:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List" To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 10 08:45:49 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Sziye-0002LY-ML for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 08:45:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56147 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Sziyd-0006p3-Sg for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 02:45:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45385) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SziyW-0006od-P3 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 02:45:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SziyT-0006NS-To for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 02:45:36 -0400 Original-Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10]:50329) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SziyT-0006NM-JL for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 02:45:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.27] (brln-4d0c0d25.pool.mediaWays.net [77.12.13.37]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrbap2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MC7ge-1SqtHn1LO4-009NbU; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 08:45:31 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:zGhgxrViMC76lCrCAKqu7zjY8yh8hNY5cglr21QGLzU uK5W8MQhKpUFzLVAvpPppIUH2K5FLvtfFaIQJ0BoenO9wD0J6Q 3LSPt/vuJBPDdshUKCMuQ2my5y6aQ8/l7WaTOHyoyAbxegZY1o qlqu41w7yA4A52WX8lFOErLFQZplpk5QGERqkv58/sGeqHF4FU iBUrrbaHFxjgcosywzqw1C3pthAXvdRuGKo7aAm/DbU+MWDHYa Uz8fQVArCpqQSuIGHRf7Kmwh8JooGiiEnLfjajh8sY564gTUh6 GM6afgsbn5tgIqq+1s8vcxHdoqcocRGgB1L5jUqUCZfD6K4G4Z qAonIEg4JFMakqnmxRC9JN8rucISqeJq9YyoU6v2q X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 212.227.17.10 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:86282 Archived-At: Am 10.08.2012 03:14, schrieb João Távora: >> Single words and symbols also are not balanced expressions IMO. >> When on ba|z >> >> (foo (bar ba|z) quux) >> >> C-M-b would reach |baz >> >> (foo (bar |baz) quux) >> >> i.e, it would do backward-word > > No, it's doing backward-sexp. "baz" happens to also be a sexp (an > atomic), and it's not a question of opinion (see below). > >> a repeat would do backward-word again, a third would error >> >> Can't see any relation to stipulated move over balanced expression here. >> >> Looks fairly arbitrary. > > It's not. In lisp-mode, where this is clearer (but as we have seen it > can and has been generalized to other programming modes), a word and a > symbol are also sexp's. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-expression: Thanks pointing at. IMO we have a conflict of notion between "symbolic expression" and "balanced expression", the latter stated in Emacs lisp info. An atom is an symbolic expression. But where is the balance in singularity established by atom? For a balance you need a counterpart. > a sexp can be an atom or a list ( a . b ) where a and b are themselves > sexp's. As you have found, backward-word doesn't error, because it > doesn't care about sexp's. But backward-sexp does :-) , indeed it > *must* error to tell you there are no more sexp's backwards at that > level. > let's go on with a example from link given "((milk juice) (honey marmalade)) is a two-element S-expression whose elements are also two-element S-expressions" Go at beginning of honey and do backward-sexp --> error A move command should look for a next element - preferably in same level. But don't expect a kind of validation from, saying: oh, this list ends here. It should just pick the next suitable element than. > IMO this is one of the best designed features in Emacs, and one many > non-Emacs users envy. When I move and delete with the C-M-* keys, I > get structured editing for free. And (shameless plug) if I add > autopair.el to that, I don't need paredit.el at all. Furthermore, > because Emacs generalizes the sexp concept to other modes via > syntax-tables, structured editing (and autopair) "just work" in > almost every programming mode that defines delimiters. okay, a use-case is an argument Will look there, maybe get a clue. > >> CC to help, as it might be of some interest for others to. > > of course, I forgot to send my previous message to the list. >