From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#37334: 26.3; doc string of `backward-word' Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 17:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50180a6f-d4a9-43d3-beb5-82fbe0fcf345@default> References: <> <<83sgp753cp.fsf@gnu.org>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="238189"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 37334-done@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 08 02:51:12 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i6lQ7-000zrB-4Q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Sun, 8 Sep 2019 00:50:40 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2uve9beg27-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 08 Sep 2019 00:50:40 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x880odcE010601; Sun, 8 Sep 2019 00:50:39 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83sgp753cp.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4873.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9373 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=983 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1909080005 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9373 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1906280000 definitions=main-1909080006 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:166289 Archived-At: > I see no reason to claim this "doesn't belong", as it > clearly _is_ relevant to word movement. Lots of things are "relevant to word movement" in some way. That doesn't mean all such things belong in the doc string of `(for|back)ward-word'. And I see no reason why this particular text belongs there. What's a particular reason? > See also bug#22560 for some additional background. I'm aware of that bug. And since you bring it up here... IMHO, it is wrong to suppose, claim, or proclaim in a blanket way that `(for|back)ward-word' should not be used in Lisp code - that they are now only for interactive use. Doing that is a mistake - it goes overboard. AFAICT, the only reason given in that thread for why Emacs should outlaw/prevent non-interactive use of `(for|back)ward-word' was this "because", from Daniel: > Because lots of packages invoke word movement commands > on the user's behalf, expecting that movement happens > by words. That doesn't address code that invokes these commands commands WITHOUT expecting that the movement necessarily happens by "words". That's exactly the case for thing-at-point code. It doesn't care whether `(for|back)ward-word' _actually_ moves by words, subwords, paragraphs, pages, elephants or thermometers. It relies on those functions for their opposite cursor movement, whatever it in fact might be. I see no reason why it shouldn't use them in its Lisp code. Functions `forward-*' and `backward-*' are used in a general, conventional way by thingatpt.el. The correct behavior of its use of such functions does NOT rely on any particular meaning or behavior of "word". IOW, it is _not_ covered by Daniel's "because". The prohibition of non-interactive use is too strong. All that should be said, IIUC, is that code that uses these functions should not count on them moving across what one might think of as "words" (in spite of their names!). IOW, make clear just what the problem is, rather than raling against all non-interactive use.