From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:38:55 +0100 Message-ID: <4pds0zz4.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <20080104164454.0A4BD830697@snark.thyrsus.com> <20080104232514.GB2735@muc.de> <87r6gxoyjv.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199565892 31182 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2008 20:44:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 20:44:52 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 05 21:45:13 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JBFtC-00021X-Oe for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:45:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBFso-0006bj-HA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:44:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBFnx-0004LJ-LG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:39:41 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBFno-0004Jy-IU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:39:41 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBFno-0004Jv-9K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:39:32 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JBFnm-0001UO-EF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:39:31 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1JBFnK-0003Hn-VB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: from 169.red-81-35-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([81.35.77.169]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: from ofv by 169.red-81-35-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:39:02 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 76 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.red-81-35-77.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.50 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:K/og5Qr8Ark+k/KiJcd278hY4jI= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86230 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > Not just evidence: you should volunteer to do actual work. >> [snip] >> >> ESR volunteered for implementing the DVCS and the bug-tracker. I >> volunteered for spam-filtering and monitoring the bug-tracker. I can do >> other misc things, such as pre-testing the system and later assist other >> users on its use. > > Yes, I know. But -- and please forgive me for being so blunt -- I > have enough grey hair to remember a few instances in the past where > people with good intentions said things like that. Sadly, intentions > are all we are left with to this day. > > I want to see some action, in addition to good intentions and more > talking. You have experience dealing with ESR. Don't you trust him? I think that the reimplementation of VC that ESR just accomplished involves an amount of work of the same order than implementing the systems he proposed. I never was involved with ESR, but his offer seems pretty credible to me. >> > A bug tracker is a good case in point: Richard stated quite some time >> > ago the basic requirements for his acceptance of such a tool, but no >> > one stepped forward to do anything practical about that. >> >> I'll be grateful if you direct me to the message where this requirements >> were stated. I failed to find it on the archives. > > What did you look for? "bug tracker" worked for me. I'm using the search facility at http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/ and when I enter "bug tracker" or "bug database" (quotes included) the result is References: [ (Too many documents hit. Ignored) ] No document matching your query. > Try the thread which started with this message: > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-10/msg00484.html Thanks! Reading it. >> A bug tracker that is not updated by its users is worse than not having >> a bug tracker. :-) > > X done badly is worse than not having X... this is a general > justification for rejecting change, not for rejecting bad ideas. > > These are not my words, they're yours, posted just a few hours ago. That is not the same case. There are certain tools that must do its job well enough. If you usually search the mailing list for data about a bug, the bug system is offering little gain. Basically, you are doing more work than before: now you must look into the bug system and the mailing list. Absurd. But as I mentioned on the message you quoted, I think this will not happen, as the bug system would monitor the mailing list and swallow data from there. >> The advantages of a living database over a static text file are too >> large to enumerate. > > But the advantage of the flat text file is that it exists. Seriously, I don't understand your attitude. Is like somebody were asking you to take some risk. -- Oscar